Posted on 12/12/2010 10:47:16 AM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
California contrail: Four conflicting eyewitness reports
One month after the KCBS video purporting to show a missile contrail off the coast of California went viral, a heated debate over what exactly created the contrail persists. Experts have offered convincing analysis supporting the theory that the contrail represents an SLBM launch, while internet pundits have assembled a formidable collection of evidence that the contrail was created by UPS flight 902. The debate is seemingly at an impasse, and it might be a good time to step back from the intense data analysis and review the basic facts of November 8, 2010.There are two known eyewitnesses who captured images of the contrail. Gil Leyvas is the helicopter camera man for KCBS in Los Angeles who videotaped the contrail and Rick Warren lives on Long Beach and photographed the contrail from his tenth story balcony. A 50 minute phone interview with Leyvas was obtained for this report and discussed further via email, and Warren was also contacted by email.
According to Leyvas, his video was obtained while filming a sunset view for a KCBS weather report. As he was filming, Leyvas noticed an object on the horizon that appeared to be climbing vertically out of the ocean, and he zoomed in on the object. He videotaped the contrail for a total of ten minutes and subsequently continued to view the contrail for an additional ten minutes. Leyvas maintains that the object itself that created the contrail only remained in view for two to three minutes. For 30 to 45 seconds, the object glowed brightly and then seemed to disappear from view. His initial impression was that the object was traveling east towards the coast. On reviewing the video later, he had the impression the object may instead have been heading away from the coast, towards the northwest.
The highly unusual appearance of the sunset contrail shown on TV and posted online, combined with Leyvas perception that the object creating the contrail only remained in view for two to three minutes, constitutes the primary basis upon which many observers believe the object was a Sub Launched Ballistic Missile.
Rick Warren wasnt sure what the object was that he was photographing on November 8th. I was shooting with a telephoto lens and looking through a viewfinder so I never really saw the separation of the object and the contrail until I looked at the photos, but Im sure that this whole thing lasted way too long to be a missile. I see lots of contrails from my 10th floor balcony but the difference in this one was that it seemed to be going up.
Having seen many contrails, what stood out for Warren was the vertical nature of the contrail, not that it looked like a missile exhaust plume. Some of his photos of the contrail were posted on the local ABC7 website, and were utilized by Mick West of Contrailscience.com to create a composite image of the flight progression of the object. The time stamps on Warrens photos were used to establish that the object creating the contrail remained in view for 4 minutes 43 seconds in Warrens photos. Based on altitude and position, the object first appeared in Leyvas video at least five minutes prior to Warrens photos. After seeing Wests analysis of the images, Warren says, Im now of the opinion that it was indeed a plane."
At this point, one of the most glaring discrepancies between these eyewitness accounts must be addressed. Most observers looking at Warrens images agree that the small dark object which appears at the top of each of his later photos is the same craft creating the plume that was seen in his earlier photos as well as that which was seen in Leyvas video.
If the object that created the contrail was still visible in Warrens photos, then the object itself is not likely to have been a missile. Solid fuel engines such as those used in an SLBM create an uninterrupted exhaust plume for two to three minutes, after which time the solid fuel is spent, and the missile is usually out of view.
On the other hand, when an airliner transitions from cold moist air to warmer drier air, the dew point changes and contrail formation decreases. In the case of USP902, the airliner would have been transitioning from moist cool air at altitude over the ocean to warmer, drier air over land. This could explain the contrail disappearing as the object moved farther east.
Mick West created a "chronological cut" of Leyvas video and posted it to YouTube. The transition from moist cool air over the ocean to warmer, drier air over land may have occurred at 1:17 to 1:20 of the chronological cut, which Warren referred to as the separation of the object and the contrail. When still images from Leyvas video are compared to the overlay of Warrens photos, there is a remarkable similarity and continuity between the two sets of images, providing a better time frame for Leyvas video within the context of Warrens time stamps:
When Leyvas was initially queried regarding these later photos, he replied,
the [Contrailscience composite] animation only shows the path the plume drifted and not anything in flight. The 30-45 seconds of video I captured in which I could see the object (the portion of the video showing the glow/flame of the object at its pinnacle) occurred 8-10 minutes prior to the animated images of the animation (if the time stamps are accurate). I have no way of telling if those time stamps are accurate since the raw video has no real-time time stamp associated with it. I can only go by an estimated time based on the time we launched out of John Wayne airport and the approximate time of our weather shot. My guess is that the time stamps are relatively close to the accurate time. However, what you are seeing in those images is the plume drifting and not anything in flight.
Leyvas still maintains the object creating the contrail is not visible in Warrens photos 8 to 10 minutes later:
The separate smaller trail that is separate from the main body of the plume and that was captured by Warren in his photos, which makes it seem as if the object continued in flight, appears in my video to possibly be the top portion of the plume that partly dissipates leaving a segment of the tip adrift - detached from the main body of the plume. (I highlight "possibly be" because during that portion of the video, I zoom in and out and pan off and back onto the plume, so I'm not sure if what we are seeing is a stage of separation like that of a missile or if it's the tip of the plume separating from the main portion). I did zoom into that portion to see if I could see a craft of some kind (at the time I thought that there was a chance the object was still making condensation/exhaust) but there was nothing there creating that segment. Had there been, I know I would have been able to see it with the high-powered lens I was using. Add to that - if it was traveling toward us, the closer it would come the easier it would be to see it, but there was nothing there. That's why I said it was merely the plume adrift and not anything continuously flying.
Though there was no time code associated with the raw footage I shot, you are still able to accurately time the footage from the moment I started the recording (as we departed John Wayne airport) to the final moments of the mystery missile story. When I play the video I can time the duration of the object in flight which was between 30-45 seconds of "Glow Time" - which is inclusive within, and at the end of the 2-3 minute estimated flight time from which the plume was visible at the horizon ... I can rely on the raw footage as it plays to gauge my estimated times since it plays back in real time on the player deck's control track timer.
There were also two unknown witnesses who captured images of the contrail, both anonymous posters on the image hosting website Flickr. A photographer on Hermosa Beach, north of Leyvas and Warren, uploaded a photo of the November 8 sunset and only subsequently realized he had captured the same contrail due to media reports. From his vantage point, without the setting sun directly back-lighting the contrail, it apparently appeared similar to the other contrails in his sunset photo.
Another anonymous photographer uploaded photos of clouds at sunset on November 8, and noticed a bright horizontal contrail that he subsequently associated with the media reports regarding the contrail. Notice that in the case of these latter two eyewitnesses, the first noted nothing unusual about the contrail until he read media reports about it, and the second viewed a horizontal, not vertical contrail.
Finally, the opinions of the known military experts must be taken into consideration. Several highly credible experts have stated their opinion that the contrail in question represented the launching of an SLBM.
A little further background from Leyvas might shed more light on the way the video was edited and presented to the public. Leyvas related that the video was taken during sweeps week in his TV market, and part of his job during sweeps week is to go out and look for and capture video of interest for sweeps week ratings. The video he captured of the contrail was subsequently heavily edited before being aired, and less than two minutes of the ten minutes of video has been seen by these experts. From the perspective of garnering sweeps week ratings, the footage was certainly successful.
It may be that the experts would modify their opinion based on viewing the entire footage. The footage is owned by the local CBS affiliate and nothing was found by the Department of Defense in reviewing the footage that would prevent its release to the public. According to Leyvas, it might still be available on their server. If that is the case, it should just be a matter of uploading the unedited ten minutes of video to YouTube to put an end to the debate.
MATTERS OF NATIONAL SECURITY
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I’m searching for it now. Someone said he took 57 pics on a thread about three weeks ago or more. No one ever questioned it then or any of the dozen times I’ve mentioned since. Every night I do three hours of research for you guys who do none.
The difference between your research and our research apparently, is that we actually produce something. Good luck on the Warren search. I already looked.
What do you mean “we?” Others have produced a lot on both side. You haven’t produced a thing. Other than the little yellow helicopter.
Why would anyone take 12 pics of an ordinary airplane contrail? If you can work in an answer between all of your “research?” ROTFLOL
Thanks for admitting that you haven’t posted anything that hasn’t been posted fifty times before you did.
But one thing 12 pictures aren't...is 57. Or even 50. Keeeeeep lookin.
I think you're getting your numbers confused with your bogus Warren photo count. But while you're researching, please point out anywhere someone else depicted the line of site from LAX or Long Beach Harbor to UPS902. I'll be satisfied with one. Not fifty.
Yet you took credit for it here.
You lied about me last night and tonight you just lie. Or then you lied. Who knows?
" How much original material have you posted to this subject? Any?" - TE
We're discussing it right now and have been for multiple posts. The line of sight diagrams from LAX and Long Beach harbor. - Rokke
That's it for you.
Inquiries made by the Northeast Intelligence Network has so far verified the following:
- There were no warning or advisories to aircraft or air traffic controllers. According to one supervisory ATC from LAX interviewed today, this was totally unexpected.
- No U.S. missile tests were scheduled or conducted at that time and location, according to a Pentagon contact;
Pentagon source 9 November 2010 1510 hours ET
- This was not an accidental launch. The methods required to launch a missile of this size and presumed type is too complex and involves more than one person, thats all I can say.
Pentagon source; 9 November 2010; 1510 hours ET
Oh yes, they know exactly where it came from and what type of missile it was, but are not saying. There are a lot of meetings taking place right now inside the ring [a reference to the Pentagon].
Pentagon source; 9 November 2010; 1510 hours ET
China, Russia, Iran, France are four countries that have the capabilities for this type type of launch. And of course, we do too. But it was not us. Theres scuttlebut about a cargo ship and China, but thats all it is, scuttlebut.
Pentagon source; 9 November 2010; 1510 hours ET
OK..:o) I'll clarify that a little...was wondering why those who think it was nothing are still on these threads posting wildly...as soon as I was convinced it was nothing I'd have no reason to be here.
I've tried, but I can't compensate for your lack of intelligence. That does not make me a liar. You have never understood what a line of sight is. That makes you ignorant of that topic, which apparently frustrates you. Here is the post where I explained the lines of sight to UPS902... Post #290. I posted it to TXnMA and started with "I extended your plotted line of site from the Leyvas video to the approximate location of the UPS902 flight path. Not surprisingly, it intersects almost exactly the lat/long of where Flightaware says UPS902 was at 5:15." He responded with "BRAVO!! Triangulation -- I knew you would figure out a way do it with the materials and tools at hand! My new tagline honors you! Is there any direction the "missle [sic] folks" can turn now to prop up their mania?"
TXnMA obviously gets it. You don't. My response to his last question now would be, "Yeah, they won't get it and accuse everyone who does of being a liar."
Now I won't call you a liar for repeatedly posting about 50 Warren photographs. You were mistaken. That is a trend for you, but you'll never admit.
Bravo. But there is a difference between posting legitimate sources (the official DoD statement delivered by its official spokesman)like I did, and posting comments from an unknown person from an unknown source. Where did you get your quotes? Who is "Pentagon source"? For all anyone knows, it could be the parking lot attendent for Pentagon Lot C.
There is a difference between being ignorant and being willfully ignorant. I believe you are the latter. That makes you a perfect candidate for conspiracies like this. And a wet dream for "news" sources like The National Enquirer, WND and CBS news.
Now, now TigerEye. Jane’s reversed their initial missile assessment.
So far no one has produced that statement. Would you do that please?
I’ve already provided you and others with the links in other threads. Remember the Air Forces Monthly thread with the poster Mercurius who has a subscription?
Mercurius wrote
The Janes account of the event has now gone up online on the Janes Missiles & Rockets website, and they are accepting the airliner-contrail explanation.
Apparently the initial short section of the recording their editor had seen did look like a missile, but a longer-duration version that later emerged convinced them it was an aircraft contrail.
Jane’s allowed 169 words of the 523 word article on the events of 8th November to be published freeview online. The rest is visible with a very expensive subscription. Mercurius posting on the subject via Air Forces Monthly magazine forum provides the subscription details.
Not to me you haven't.
Remember the Air Forces Monthly thread with the poster Mercurius who has a subscription?
I have never heard of that thread or that poster.
Pretty much what I expected from you. Nothing.
Do you even read the threads that you post to? This is a typical response from you. Most people following this story have read and followed every thread on the subject. Jane’s Rocket and Missiles dropped the assessment. Live with it. You are clinging onto initial statements that were dumped by Janes weeks ago.
There is nothing to say to you...the obvious is there for anyone to see...it had the trajectory and contrail of a missile, not a plane for heaven sakes..yikes!
I have read every thread on the subject. I put keywords on every one of them too. There is no thread with that title so if there is one I never saw it.
This is a typical response from you.
That is a typical condescending remark. Typical of you and typical of most con-trailers. It would have been ten times as easy for you to post a link to the statement than the empty posts you spent your time on tonight. Usually that's a sure sign you're just blowing smoke.
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