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To: TigersEye
"No, you're confused. I was speaking of the line you drew in the pic at #3. Perhaps that wasn't supposed to be its flight path. In that case I don't know what that line represents."

If you mean the yellow line with the helicopter symbol at one end, that is the line of sight from the position Leyvas was filming to the contrail.

"If you don't have the right position for the helicopter then you have no idea what direction the camera was pointed."

Again, to determine a line of sight, all you need are two points upon which to base a line. That is why the portion of the video filmed over Long Beach is so helpful. There are several easily identifiable points upon which someone can "connect the dots" toward the contrail. Line them all up, and you know the line of site from Sky2 to the contrail. You can't tell how long that line is (from the helicopter to the contrail), but you know its track across the earth, which is all you need to determine what direction the camera is looking.

"But it is relevant to what was out there at the time he taped."

That's true. But Leyvas is the only person who can provide that time estimate and the LA Times said he told them he started filming at 17:15. Based on the fact that the sun has set, but it is still relatively light out, that is probably a decent estimate.

169 posted on 12/07/2010 10:37:29 PM PST by Rokke (www.therightreasons.net)
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To: Rokke
If you mean the yellow line with the helicopter symbol at one end, that is the line of sight from the position Leyvas was filming to the contrail.

No. This one...


All of that is way north of Catalina and Long Beach and the flight path of UPS902's furthest point north was the middle of Catalina. Now I am confused as I don't know what you're depicting there.

Again, to determine a line of sight, all you need are two points upon which to base a line.

What two points are you using? First, foreshortening in the camera's lens makes it nearly impossible to determine an accurate line projected onto the image the camera takes. If it's not from the exact center of the lens out to the center line of the photo it won't be accurate. Everything from dead center in the photo, which we can't determine either, will be distorted to some extent. How much depends on the lens itself.

Now to lay that on a two-dimensional map from an imaginary vantage point above the line of sight in the photo straight down onto the surface of the earth means introducing more margins for error.

I think I would be generous to say you could be within 10 degrees either way with your line of sight. That may still satisfy you. Given how far off of that UPS902 could have been, and not been in the camera view, it's too much for me. Add uncertainty about the time in regards to an airplane traveling over 8 miles per minute and a couple of small errors would have that flight 200 miles further out or further in.

But Leyvas is the only person who can provide that time estimate and the LA Times said he told them he started filming at 17:15.

I have yet to see any source for that except the fill-in statement made by a CBS reporter who wrote a small piece on this. He didn't say Leyvas "started taping" at 17:15 either. We don't know, yet, if that's when he started taping it, finished taping it or if that's just when he called in to get the OK to tape it and started a little later. That is just not nailed down at all.

170 posted on 12/07/2010 11:25:46 PM PST by TigersEye (Who crashed the markets on 9/28/08 and why?)
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