Military slams door on mystery missile questions

WND ^ | December 1, 2010 | F. Michael Maloof

[TigersEye]

Sto Zvirat the stalker.

[Sto Zvirat]

No, not stalking. You have been bleating all over the board that it was a missile, yet, you have not offered one ounce of proof or data.

All I ask is that you show me the data to change my mind.

Every time I ask, you resort to an attack that has nothing to do with the subject. Why? Could it be that you have no data?

Show me some data!

[Sto Zvirat]

No, not stalking. You have been bleating all over the board that it was a missile, yet, you have not offered one ounce of proof or data.

All I ask is that you show me the data to change my mind.

Every time I ask, you resort to an attack that has nothing to do with the subject. Why? Could it be that you have no data?

Show me some data!

[TigersEye]

You want to see some data? Here's some data. Cyber stalking is a Federal felony.

[Sto Zvirat]

Grow up, I don’t give a damn about you, have no idea who you are, where you live and I don’t care.

What I care about is getting some actual answers from a conspiracy theorist who has no problem making silly theories, but wusses out every time he is asked to provide some proof.

All you have to do is admit that you have NO data and you were wrong. Then there will be cake.

[pandoraou812]

Good link, thanks I can use it on FB.

[higgmeister]

Minnis usually studies contrails to determine their effect on Earth's climate. He and others have discovered that airplane contrails create cirrus clouds on days they wouldn't usually exist. Because of this, he calculates, the cirrus-cloud cover over the United States is increasing by one percent each decade and contributing to global warming by blocking the release of heat from the planet.

Your so called exert also thinks this so called aircraft contrail indicates an increase in Global Warming! What a kook!

[higgmeister]

Sto zvirat means “A Hundred Beasts” in Czech and is the name of a Czech skinhead punk Ska band. It looks like the stalker is a real animal of very questionable discernment.

[Sto Zvirat]

Good work with google! Its named after the band.

As for being a stalker no. I am a rational person that challenges Conspiracy Theorists to offer proof of their outrageous claims. If you were a 9/11 truther, moon hoaxer, JFK conspiracy theorist I’d do the same. I ask for actual data and proof from conspiracy theorists. In turn, because they don’t have any proof, I get attacked personally. I expect it and welcome it, it shows the low IQ and desperation of conspiracy theorists.

So, since your friend Tiger won’t answer, I will ask you, do you have any proof, or any data that supports your missile theory? I’d like to see it, if you have real proof or data, I will support your argument, but its been a month of asking, so where is your data, I’d like to see it.

Oh, and personal attacks are not a way to win an argument.

[higgmeister]

I will ask you, do you have any proof, or any data that supports your missile theory?

Yes, there was a video recording of the event itself.

I invite you to provide any reliable proof for a cargo jet contrail, more than a supposed aircraft vapor trail photographed from a satellite that supposedly remained solidly intact over the largest ocean on the planet with no drifting or dispersal. Then additionally, you might provide more than some still photographs and google maps with lines and arrows describing a plausible deniability conspiracy type cover story from a novice chemtrail/contrail science conspiracy theory blogger.

The latest contrail expert from NASA also said the contrails allow him to see that Global Warming is increasing! What a hoot!

You call video recording a missile launch a conspiracy theory, yet the missile launch itself is not the the story. You contrail conspirators dreamed up the contrail cover story out of whole cloth. If the Chinese launched a missile in international water to send a message to President Obama, and our military does not substantiate that fact, that isn't a conspiracy. That is exactly what we should expect our military to do. Very few of the numerous Cold War transgressions or encroachments have ever been admitted to. If our DoD/NCA has sensitive knowledge and does not release it, there is no conspiracy.

[Tommyjo]

Do a search for Dr Minnis? Find his NASA contact details and ask him directly?

[Tommyjo]

The sat image showed that it drifted and dispersed. It was the size of the contrail that allowed it to be detected on sat. Go onto the NASA contrail website and see how contrails are detected by sat?

What size contrail can be seen in a satellite image?

Link to NASA contrail website

[Tommyjo]

And what about the other military observing for such rogue launches? You are claiming that a PRC sub launched an SLBM in international waters off the coast of the US heading west. Where is the reaction from the Russian military?

Back in 2001 both the Russians and Ukrainians were embarrassed by the US when the US released that they had detected the launch plume of the SA-5 Gammon that downed a Tu-154 over the Black Sea. Prior to that they were in complete denial mode that any launch had taken place.

So, here we have the Russians going on alert after space-based systems would have detected an unannounced SLBM launch. A launch that would be assumed from the word go as a US rogue launch and yet the Russians remain quiet? Sorry but not a chance in hell of this happening. Remember according to the missile theory people that this was heading outbound from the US. To the Russians it would be from the word go assessed as being a US rogue launch.

[Sto Zvirat]

No...the poor quality looped and zoomed recording is what started this madness, it doesn’t prove its a missile.

As for reliable proof that it was a plane, its all over the place, its been shown to you in dozens of pictures, comparison pictures, correlating to the flight data, etc. Not my fault that you can’t accept the reality of it.

As for global warming, that has nothing to do with this debate, its just extraneous junk you are throwing in, not germane, so its not data.

Now, your chinese missile story is nice, good paranoid fiction from you, would make a great book. However, you have zero proof to back up that fantasy. You need to look at this realistically.

Again....missile crowd has no data, nada.

[TigersEye]

I found that band on Youtube. Wow! do they suck.

[Sto Zvirat]

It wasn’t a “Skinhead” band, it was a ska band. I used to spend a lot of time in Prague, it was fun music for the time. It means 100 animals.

Now that we have that bit of extraneous minutia settled, I’m wondering. Do you have any proof or data to prove that it was a missile?

[pandoraou812]

I would have agree & I like all kinds of music. This thread reminds me of Madness doing One Step Beyond. ~EFG~

[InvisibleChurch]

It was a Nkorean missile shot from a Chinese sub a few miles off Catalina island.

[TXnMA]

Here is something I saw almost immediately, but which has taken me quite a while and several iterations to get down on a 2-D screen in simple enough form that anyone with an IQ of at least 100 and a mind free of paranoid delusions should be able to comprehend:

~~~~~~~~~~~~

The graphics below use the characteristics of the recorded phenomenon -- as viewed from positions northward up the coast -- plus basic perspective -- to settle the question of whether the videotaped object was outward (westward) or inward (eastward) bound.

The first graphic depicts the trajectory of an object climbing outward bound. It is not significant, but I have approximated the "35 mile" offshore "launch point" distance estimated by the SeeBS camera crew. Notice on the right that, when viewed from a point directly east of the trajectory, it appears to be purely vertical in direction.

In particular, notice that, when viewed from the north the trajectory is to the RIGHT.

In this second graphic, I depict the trajectory of an inward (eastward) -bound object. As with the outbound case, when viewed from directly to the east, its trajectory appears to be purely vertical.

BUT, when viewed from the north its trajectory is to the LEFT.

This fact is clearly demonstrated by the CargoLaw webcam sited at LAX -- well to the north of the SeeBS video viewpoint:

---

However, it is not necessary to rely on static viewing locations to the north -- because the contrail was drifting rapidly to the south -- as seen in the GOES WEST satellite images and in the sequence of still images taken from Rick Warren's static location in Long Beach.

The following graphic uses a set of perspective views of an outbound track project both to the north and to the south of a viewpoint directly to the east of a westbound trajectory. The image at the bottom was used repeatedly to produce the perspective projections. The vanishing point used is indicated.

This final graphic depicts an incoming (Eastward-bound) trajectory in the same manner:

It is patently onvious that only the "incoming eastbound" examples match reality -- or, even, SeeBS's video abortion.

Perspective causes objects (or the farthest end of a contrail) moving across the field of view to appear to move slowly (low angular velocity). Conversely, objects near the viewpoint appear to cross the view field rapidly. Notice as the trail drifts southward, it appears to "lean down" to the left, That is caused by the fact that the perspective effect causes the contrail to appear to "pivot on" its distant vanishing point.

The "perspective leaning" effect is obvious in Mick West's composite of four static viewpoint frames made by Rick Warren: And, as the contrail drifts to the south of the viewpoint (is viewed from the north) the same left-pointing characteristic shown in the LAX webcam view is apparent.

To see these effects dynamically displayed with a larger set of images, view this GIF animation of the Warren photos created by Mick West.

http://consci.s3.amazonaws.com//images/clipped-animating.gif

---

The object videotaped and presented in a confusing video edit by SeeBS was not traveling from the sea surface near CA and headed westward (or northwestward) out over the Pacific Ocean.

Beyond a shadow of a doubt, it was inbound eastward toward CA.

And it wasn't a "missile" of any sort (or nationality) -- it was the high-altitude contrail formed by the plain old MD-11 of UPS Flight 902 from Hawaii to Ontario, CA.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This been a challenging and fun exercise! -- I want to thank lbahneman, Mick West, and Rick Warren for their impeccable original analyses and for the use of their images.

And heartfelt thanks to Rokke and many other clear-thinking FReepers for fruitful conversations and other contributions to "wrapping ALL the data around" this non-mystery.

TXnMA

[Sto Zvirat]

When this thing first hit, I asked all the conspiracy theorists to come up with recorded sightings of this “missile” from San Diego to Santa Barbara, if it was a launch, it would have been seen far north and south.

Of course there were no sightings. Nor was there any ionized gas cloud, nor any witnesses on Catalina, etc etc etc.