Glenn Beck: They’re lying to us about the mystery contrail

Hot Air ^ | 11/19/2010 | Right Scoop

[TigersEye]

What arch? I never said anything about any arch.

[Yardstick]

Well, that's pretty pretty imprecise.

Precision isn't what's required here. What's required is a general understanding of which way the plane was flying. You missile cultists say it was heading west out to sea. That's obviously not what the pictures show. Your misunderstanding of such a gross kind that it would be silly to get into issues of precision with you.

A simple question about some basic information sure throws you into a tailspin doesn't it?

You are quite entertaining.

[TigersEye]

Yeah, we wouldn’t want to answer any simple questions now would we? LOL

[eyedigress]

I don’t know him either but I will ask him. This story burned out a week ago. Good Grief.

[Yardstick]

Yeah, we wouldn’t want to answer any simple questions now would we? LOL

Right, because it's real simple to provide the coordinates of that helicopter. Meanwhile you have no explanation for why the plane is flying east in the pics.

[TigersEye]

Right, because it's real simple to provide the coordinates of that helicopter.

Then you can do that and provide your source for it instead of spinning like a top.

[TigersEye]

I predict it takes at least another hundred posts before wonder boy post the coordinates or admits he doesn’t have them.

[Yardstick]

And now we learn that conspiracy theorists are deaf to sarcasm.

[TigersEye]

I admit that I was wrong. It only took you one post to, sort of, admit you don’t have the coordinates. Nor the altitude I am sure.

[Yardstick]

You are an idiot, TigersEye. I don’t know how else to put it.

Nighty night!

[higgmeister]

This perspective is less ambiguous and clearly shows it flying from west to east.

If anything the still screen capture tracks almost South, if it can be believed at all. I'll respond more later. Wife is trying to sleep.

[higgmeister]

Furthermore, if it is climbing into the stratosphere, toward the sun (which set at 4:54 and Leyvas said he started filming at 5:15), the trail would become white as it was hit by direct sunlight. That never happens.

The sun in the Winter sets to South Southwest. This time of year it would not strongly backlight the plume. We would expect to see exactly what we saw.

[TXnMA]

"Lame strawman. Especially coming from the guy who came up with the amazingly lame theory that editing cuts in a news video equal some Oliver Stone conspiracy plot."

~~~~~~~~~

See these words? The language is English. Learn to read it.

I said that, with this:

seeBS produced a confusingly-edited video And hyped it with a lie.

Edited video is, by no stretch of the imaginagtion, "RAW".

I left it to the viewer to decide what motivated seeBS.

~~~~~~~~~

And I provided a valuable service to all by sharing a means of determining where in the flight sequence various clips were recorded.

~~~~~~~~~

I talk about the event. You talk about me.

What new information have you contributed to this discussion?

[Rokke]

"The sun in the Winter sets to South Southwest. This time of year it would not strongly backlight the plume. We would expect to see exactly what we saw."

Solar azimuth at 5:15 on 8 Nov 2010 in Los Angeles was 253 degrees. But it wouldn't matter if the sun set directly to the east. Clouds, contrails, missile trails...all appear white when exposed to direct sunlight at altitude. If the object filmed was climbing toward the sun, its trail would become white as it continued its track. Period. Like the picture of an actual missile launch below.

[Finny]

Another note for lurkers:

Remember that those 13 uncaptioned still shots on the cbs local website so often used as "proof" here are scrupulously NOT attributed to Gil Leyvas, but only presented in a way to suggest it. They may or may not be from Leyvas' original video, and in a way, that's beside the point: the problem with them, and the reason I ignore the photos when they're shoved at me as "proof" of an eastbound airliner, is because I cannot know how long the plume they show has been hanging there in the sky. Again, that's the advantage of watching Leyvas' video -- you can see the time it took to lay down the amount of plume that you see in the shot.

Those 13 uncaptioned, vaguelly-attributed still shots on the cbs site may very well be showing what is left of the plume long after the video was shot, before it became dark, and after the smoke in the plume had dissippated and been scattered by the winds. So again, unless you've worked closely with missiles and know how plumes from solid-fuel propelled missiles differ in appearance from condensation trails (I don't), a still shot isn't going to tell you much except the direction of the sun hitting the plume or contrail, whichever it is you're looking at.

Go outside at sunset. Study how the sun illuminates the bottoms and sides of the clouds, and if there are any contrails, study that as well. Think in terms of three dimensions, picture what's really happening in the three dimensional world of sun lighting the clouds and contrails. Then go watch the video. We are lay people here for the most part, and so we're more limited in what we can derive from the photos. I expect that's why true missileers (Air Force generals, Jane's editor, countless FReepers who are current military or veterans) came out so quickly and confidently with pronouncements: "This was a missile."

But even us lay people have enough info at hand to figure it out. Go out and study the lighting on the clouds and contrails at sunset yourself. YOURSELF. Then watch the video. You'll get that it shows a plume heading north-west against a setting sun. You have, in your own noggin, all the "expertise" you need.

[TXnMA]

Here are a couple of quick attempts with Google Earth at putting my first guess as to the chopper's location and view bearing toward the target -- plus an estimate of the field covered by the photo you posted:

[TXnMA]

Thanks for addressing the question I've ask since day one! (My first visual clue it was a high altitude aircraft -- not a missile launch from the surface...)

Probably one of the best photos I've seen illustrating the dusk sunlight principle I depicted in #537.

Why didn't the "missile" start off in darkness and climb into the bright sunlight?

[TXnMA]

"What arch? I never said anything about any arch."

Of course you didn't. That would require actual observation and trying to understand what you are seeing -- instead of parroting the wacko line, "The missile is curving off to the northwest."

FYI, this arch:

[TXnMA]

"What was the location of the Sky2 helicopter since you seem to know it?"

As usual -- too lazy to figure it out for yourself -- but you really aren't interested in determining the truth...

I just did, See #596.

[TXnMA]

Here's my estimation of the bearing to the contrail and the field of view in this Sky2 image. This one is oriented to North, instead of to the photo's view direction, so the bearing should be pretty accurate.