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To: Mr. Silverback

Yes I followed the link and I think it does look kind of like a contrail. I can’t say though that a contrail would expand in the way this plume does. A contrail was my first thought but the shape, near the rocket, looks more like a slightly over expanded supersonic fluid jet designed to reach maximum thrust at a lower atmospheric pressure, i.e. not a gas turbine jet, certainly not one with a high bypass ratio typical of a commercial aircraft where the Kelvin-Helmholtz vortexes appear as the jet decelerates.

My suspicions were heightened when I say the color changes in the immediate exhaust. They are not from water vapor or Jet A soot.


310 posted on 11/13/2010 7:23:30 PM PST by MontaniSemperLiberi (Moutaineers are Always Free)
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To: MontaniSemperLiberi

Do you think the objects in 303 and 308 are the same type or is one a missile and one a plane? Both missiles? Both planes? Which.


312 posted on 11/13/2010 7:25:36 PM PST by Tolsti2
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To: MontaniSemperLiberi
Yes I followed the link and I think it does look kind of like a contrail. I can’t say though that a contrail would expand in the way this plume does.

Here's a photo of a Delta launch's trail:

I'm not saying that all rocket trails are like that, but these things are subject to a lot of different factors and can't be put in easily defined catgories. Also, contrail often spread quite a bit. I've seen them mistaken for cirrus clouds within minutes of the jet's passage.

My suspicions were heightened when I say the color changes in the immediate exhaust. They are not from water vapor or Jet A soot.

With all due respect, at this distance and resolution I can't see how you can conclude that you're seeing the exhaust itself. Plus, why is the "flame" only visible for part of the video? If you watch footage of missile launches, the flame is visible pretty much at all times. Take these...

Trident II Launch goes wrong
Navy - Trident Missile Launch From a Submarine
Minuteman III Missile Launch - California to Kwajalein Atoll
MINUTEMAN III Missile Launch

That last one is mostly computer simulated footage from Northrop-Grumman, but notice the details of the flight provided in captions starting about 2:15. That ICBM passes through mach 1 at 8,300 feet...were there sonic booms reported in LA around 5:15 on the 8th? It reaches Mach 3 20 seconds later...does that object look like it was moving at Mach 3? At about 1 minute of flight time, the second stage ignites...and keep in mind that the SLBMs China has developed are two stage birds and the U.S./British Trident is a three stage. Do you see a stage separation in the CBS footage? At 2 minutes after launch the ICBM is 90 miles away from the launch site and 240,000 feet up...can the object in the CBS video be 90 miles away and 240,000 feet up or anywhere near it? Note also that if we have a three stage bird another stage separation should occur about now. Is there one on the CBS video?

There is no way this was an SLBM. To be a sub launched missile, this object would have to be a missile specifically developed to be fired off, stay below Mach one and hang in the sky for several minutes.

1,196 posted on 11/17/2010 8:56:34 AM PST by Mr. Silverback (Anyone who says we need illegals to do the jobs Americans won't do has never watched "Dirty Jobs.")
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