I replied to you back on #1280.
mysearchfortruth says:
November 11, 2010 at 5:31 pm
http://petersantilli.com/ quote: “China flexed its military muscle Monday evening in the skies west of Los Angeles when a Chinese Navy Jin class ballistic missile nuclear submarine, deployed secretly from its underground home base on the south coast of Hainan island, launched an intercontinental ballistic missile from international waters off the southern California coast. WMR’s intelligence sources in Asia, including Japan, say the belief by the military commands in Asia and the intelligence services is that the Chinese decided to demonstrate to the United States its capabilities on the eve of the G-20 Summit in Seoul and the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation summit in Tokyo, where President Obama is scheduled to attend during his ten-day trip to Asia.
The reported Chinese missile test off Los Angeles came as a double blow to Obama. The day after the missile firing, China’s leading credit rating agency, Dagong Global Credit Rating, downgraded sovereign debt rating of the United States to A-plus from AA. The missile demonstration coupled with the downgrading of the United States financial grade represents a military and financial show of force by Beijing to Washington.
The Pentagon spin machine, backed by the media reporters who regularly cover the Defense Department, as well as officials of the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD), and the U.S. Northern Command, is now spinning various conspiracy theories, including describing the missile plume videotaped by KCBS news helicopter cameraman Gil Leyvas at around 5:00 pm Pacific Standard Time, during the height of evening rush hour, as the condensation trail from a jet aircraft. Other Pentagon-inspired cover stories are that the missile was actually an amateur rocket or an optical illusion….”
The second article is equally as intriguing…
shunt1 says:
November 11, 2010 at 6:08 pm @William From Los Angeles:
Don’t worry William, because those of us who have worked at White Sands Missile Range understood what we were seeing.
However, for this specific case, I would ask that you to get behind the “contrail” or “swamp gas” explanations on any public forums.
You and I both know why I would ask that of you.
shunt1 says: November 11, 2010 at 6:25 pm
@William From Los Angeles:
I was at White Sands Missile Range from 1979 to 1994 and ASL and oftened worked with EOD.
You and that WSMR EOD team were the most heroic people I have ever seen and you have my absolute respect!
Some of the stories that we could tell…
1. shunt1 says: “I was at White Sands Missile Range from 1979 to 1994 at ASL, where we often worked with EOD. You and that WSMR EOD team were the most heroic people I have ever seen and you have my absolute respect! Some of the stories that we could tell if ever allowed…”
Thanks for the kind words. I never really considered it heroic but the job certainly needed huge nads. The kind you carry around in a wheel barrel. My training was good and the danger was manageable. Those were the best and worst days of my life. I know a couple of those stories and yes even after 22 years they still give me chills at night.
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I do find it interesting that a NOTAM went out right after this incident clearing the area for over a day. http://china-defense.blogspot.com/2010/11/california-missile-launch-hunt-for-red.html
---------- Garry B. Coston says:
November 14, 2010 at 10:20 am
I can’t believe how naive, gullible, and goofy everyone is sounding, including scientists and members of the American Government, stating that this is not a ballistic missile launch. Look at the plume. If that is a commercial jet aircraft, why doesn’t all of the commercial jets produce a plume of that magnitude? Someone said it’s a stunt plane. The plume is too large, and the ballistic missile keeps going ever higher in the sky first vertical, then horizontal towards the west; why would a stunt plane be rehearsing, training, etc. that far away? There’s lots of “big sky” and “big country” east of California where there’s no power lines or other interference. Someone said Aliens; come on man! Aliens? That’s a weak “cop out.”
Take it from a 20 year Navy Veteran whose seen ballistic missile launches and other type missile launches; IT WAS A BALLISTIC MISSILE LAUNCH.
Even former Admirals, Generals, and other Military experts and Scientists affirm and confirm unequivocally that it was a ballistic launch; from a submarine mind you. And if it wasn’t an American sub, it must have been from either China, North Korea, or some other nation making a very solid and “scare you” statement to America.
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R. de Haan says: November 15, 2010 at 9:24 pm
It was a missile and it was fired from a submarine: General Mcinerney: I am absolutely certain that is NOT an aircraft.
Watch what he further has to say in the video at the following link: http://www.prisonplanet.com/general-mcinerney-“i-am-absolutely-certain-that-is-not-an-aircraft”.html
I agree 100% with General Mcinerney’s assessment.
E. M Smith… you are right.
George E. Smith says:
November 10, 2010 at 5:23 pm
So the official Pentagon story is that it was a plane, and NOT a missile. They claim that it was an ordinary vapor contrail over 300 miles long from the horizon flying horizontally.
I’ve seen a lot of high flying aircraft vapor trails; never seen one like that. All the ones I have ever seen had a clear air gap behind the plane before the vapor trail cloud materializes.
And going back to the original CBS vidseo after learning that it is not a rocket; but a high flying aeroplane; I’m even more convinced that it was a rocket; and clearly flying in a curved trajectory.
Vapor trails behind jets; after 300 miles would be widely dispersed and see through; this is clearly a rocket exhaust; the optical density is far too high to be a vapor trail; and aircraft don’t fly in non linear arcs like this bird did.
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ShaneCMuir says:
November 11, 2010 at 12:49 am
I don’t know what this thing was.. and quite frankly.. I don’t really care. In the larger scheme of things.. it is of little or no importance.
But to call it a “contrail”.. on a science site.. is THE MOST LUDICROUS thing I have read on WUWT.
Contrails are made from water vapour which dissipates within a few seconds of leaving the aircraft.. much like your breath does on a cold night. Contrails do not hang around in the air after the plane has gone.
C’mon Anthony.. it's science man.. science.
As huge fan and daily visitor to this site (since November last year anyway).. lately I have found myself very disappointed with the total LACK of scientific method applied to some recent stories. If you aren’t going to put on your science hat when dealing with these issues Anthony.. then just leave them alone.. and stick to climate. At least that way you won’t alienate fans such as myself.
Ralph says: November 11, 2010 at 1:04 am
After so much comment, the bottom line is:
If this aerial vehicle is coming towards the camera, it is a contrail. A common illusion in an evening sky that I have seen many times. If it is going away from the camera, it CANNOT be a contrail. That particular illusion, highlighted at the beginning of the thread, cannot work with a receding aircraft.
So is it coming towards the viewer, or away?
I vote that it is going away.
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William From Los Angeles says: November 11, 2010 at 9:10 am
Long ago I was EOD stationed at White Sands Missile Range.
I have seen hundreds of missile launches.
This looks to me like a very large missile traveling away at an angle.
It’s the angle that can make it look like it is going slow.
Much like when you are on a straight road in the desert a car can look like it is sitting still when in fact it traveling at high speeds directly towards you.
The thickness of the plume makes me believe missile over an airplane.
The light from the object and the blur you see suggests a long distance.
You can only see the flame like that on the larger ones.
I will never say I can’t be wrong but I feel certain on this one.
November 10, 2010 at 3:27 pm http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AMdHBgHtNE
I was watching CNN early this morning (7am-ish Pacific) and they had two experts on this subject. Had I been on my game I would have jotted down their names because (while three other subsequent video’s claiming contrails probable) the video clip is not posted on the CNN website.
The significance of the interview was that one of the experts had examined the entire KCBS helicopter footage which he claimed to be in the vicinity of 10 minutes long – probably filmed long after the rocket disappeared from sight.
He stated that in the footage there was a ‘clear’ and irrefutable separation of the stage one rocket.
While people are quick to dismiss this as an illusion-induced regular phenomenon, we of all people should not shrug something so important off with flimsy evidence based on our perceptions and/or fears.
To be honest I was floored when I saw the interview this morning and if anyone can find it (it had two panelist experts) one of them was John Pike, the other I can’t recall. It wasn’t this one:
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2010/11/09/wian.missile.mystery.cnn?iref=allsearch but I did notice Pike in this one.
It seems to me that this event is Classified and the flimsy argument of an optical illusion causing people to believe a still unidentified aircraft caused what looked like an ICBM Submarine based missile launch is ridiculous. I imagine the Pentagon may have a more official denial (rather than big-maybe’s about contrails) if no other footage of the event turns up. However, where is the so-called long-version of this event which shows the missile/rocket changing stages? Are we really going to shrug this off and sweep it under the rug? Why?
It was a rocket people.
Where it came from should be the mystery to solve, not whether or not it was an airplane for goodness sakes. If the ‘contrail’ people are wrong the next event could be ten ‘armed’ missiles headed for our shores and not away from them. Seriously, if we don’t demand answers and lean on our government to protect our country, who will?
We need to stop chasing Al Quaida in caves half-way around the world and secure our own countries defenses.
I may be wrong but I need more than references to optical illusions making it look like it’s a missile heading West when it is actually an airplane headed east – and that is not a rocket-fireball-plume but rather the sun reflecting off the plane – blah blah.
I mean this with all due respect… I could be wrong but your arguments so far do not overcome even the short-version video clips let alone what appears to be a longer version showing the stage separation. Good supportive evidence but certainly not a slam dunk – especially given the wishy-washy official responses to date.
Hopefully more amateur video footage comes out related to this – or we get access to the long version of the KCBS footage.