I should have expanded that map to show Catalina Island, but you can see for yourself on a map.
Posted on 11/13/2010 2:55:59 PM PST by DontTreadOnMe2009
Ballistic missileA ballistic missile trajectory consists of three parts: the powered flight portion, the free-flight portion which constitutes most of the flight time, and the re-entry phase where the missile re-enters the Earth's atmosphere.
The powered flight portion can last from a few tens of seconds to several minutes and can consist of multiple rocket stages.
When in space and no more thrust is provided, the missile enters free-flight. In order to cover large distances, ballistic missiles are usually launched into a high sub-orbital spaceflight; for intercontinental missiles the highest altitude (apogee) reached during free-flight is about 1200 km.
Short- and medium-range missiles are often collectively referred to as theater or tactical ballistic missiles (TBMs).
(snip)
The flight phases are like those for ICBMs, except with no exoatmospheric phase for missiles with ranges less than about 350 km.
The world is full of different types of missiles. Basing your theories on what kind of missile it was or wasn't is pretty risky since the DoD says they don't know what it was.
Great, so where is your actual proof other than “gee it sure looks like a missile”.
The contrail side has presented tons of data, comparisons, timed photos, flight data, comparison shots, weather information etc. The missile crowd just has paranoic yells of “its a chinese missile!!!” but no proof, nothing to substantiate their claim, other than their opinion.
Almost 2 weeks on, and zero hard data from the missile crowd.
Two weeks and nada, zilch, bupkis from the Missile Denier crowd.
Amazing Interview: Air Force General says "Sub Launched Missile, 100% Certain"Ahhh ... the old logical fallacy, the 'appeal to authority' thing regardless of other info, evidence, etc, on hand ...
Has ahhhh .... anyone examined the news/traffic choppers video? Only ONE person/the cameraman saw this?
And - no one finds this a little bit, um, strange?
No boats/pleasure craft in around near, or people on Catalina Island saw or heard this?
No one, exc the 'visual'/the video by the camera crew/the ca,era man in the traffic helicopter?
THIS is 'UFO' territory as far as events go then ...
Seriously?
You have been given a plane, in the position, you have been given the weather reports, you have been given another contrail the next day at the same time that gives the same contrail.
You have yet to offer one single bit of proof for a missile, who shot it, what kind of missile, when was it fired, where was it fired from, why was it fired?
Show your work, no opinions, just some cold hard data, something other than “gee that looks like a missile”. Where are the witnesses? How come, if its such a conspiracy, not a single person that would know has yet to squeal?
Its becoming a comedy show.
Debunked.
...you have been given the weather reports, ...
The same weather system extended to the east slope of the Rockies. I've posted that about five times. Try to keep up.
...you have been given another contrail the next day at the same time that gives the same contrail.
It doesn't look the same at all and "another contrail" doesn't mean a thing. Good grief!
I can't beleive how whiny you were about my joke. If anything characterizes the majority of your posts it's "rude, insulting and demeaning." Are you a little girl? I don't converse with minors on the internet so it's important that you answer that honestly.
Not debunked, try again.
And, you still have no actual data other than “it looks like a missile”
I wasn’t whiny about your joke, just noting that when someone loses an argument, they resort to cheap jokes rather than the actual argument.
Good to see you are living down to the stereotype of a typical conspiracy theorist, no data, no proof, just attacks and paranoid thinking.
FRiend, make sure you remember those words so you can come back to them... :-)
To: muawiyahIt is impossible for it to be Flight UPS 902. Absolutely impossible. Check it for yourself. The website below allows you to track all current flights and previous flight histories in the area. First let me say there were only two possibilities. AWE808 and UPS902. UPS902 came through almost a half hour later then AWE808. Flight AWE808 was over Catalina Island at 17:01:39 on November 8th. Then crossed over the California main coastline at 17:06:00. If you look at the flight path for UPS902 on that day in history, only someone smoking crack would claim it was the flight.UPS902 was over Catalina Island at 17:31:33. Its altitude was ~ 30,000 feet. It was 35 miles south of Long Beach at 17:33:01. Altitude ~ 29,000 feet. It was then 20 miles south of Costa Mesa at 17:34:29 at ~ 29,000 feet. At that altitude should have been contrailing the whole way. Never got close to Long Beach. Traveled south of FallBrook and started major descent then. Turned north and was at 11,100 feet over Hemet heading north. No way it could have been that plane. Check it for yourself. Go to the website below. Set the date for November 8th 2010 time 17:30 . Set the replay speed for normal. Hit Start Replay. Make sure you are not paused. Planes will show up in a few seconds. UPS902 will appear on and off south of Malibu at 17:30:11. It flew way south of Long Beach at about 30,000 feet. No where near the setting sun with respect to looking south from Long Beach.
Apparently you think you can change documented history or geography or something. LOL
I’ve waited two weeks I can wait two more. ;^)
Yeah that's what the track shows...looked it up on a couple tracking sites...so how can anyone say conclusively that this is the object? All the reports I saw/read put it well north of Catalina~
Hope. They want to debunk the opinion (as if that even makes sense to do) because we are speculating on what we see in the video. To do that they speculate based on the video. Or they say they aren't saying anything about the video (and in some cases they really aren't) but that means they are leaving the very thing the story is about entirely out of their speculations.
It really is like Greenhouse Theory and Global Warming. They're spinning more than a gyroscope in a ballistic missile.
Again, where is your proof that its a missile, other than “gee, that looks like a missile”
Show your work.
So, how old are you? You didn’t answer.
Nice attempt at diversion. Where is your proof? You didn’t answer.
Its fascinating to see you guys clinging to the missile paranoia, in the face of logic and reason.
I should have expanded that map to show Catalina Island, but you can see for yourself on a map.
It really is like Greenhouse Theory and Global Warming. They're spinning more than a gyroscope in a ballistic missile.
It's so much like it that it's frightening, especially the psychology of it. Sto -- who joined FR a little more than five months ago -- flatters the vanity of a long-time respectable but inexperienced (with live missiles and So Cal skies) FReeper by saying:
Good work, science, reason, and calm heads always come to a plausible, testable and sound answer. Unfortunately, what we got was a bunch of shrill overreactions based on paranoia and ignorance.
Talk about flattery and psychological manipulation taking advantage of a person's lack of experience with a particular phenomenon!
And as for lbahneman, he signed up to FR two days AFTER the event.
AS far as I can tell, MOST of the people exherting tons of effort to "prove" the airplane ID have never seen a live missile launch and have zero or limited experience with LA area skies, but seem to pride themselves on their "calm heads" and huge, superior brains and ability to do math.
Reading the thousands of posts here and on other forums, MOST of the people who understand that the plane theory is bogus have seen live missile launches, and many of them are familiar with L.A. area skies.
But the MOST TELLING psychological factor of all: in order for the airplane IDers to accept their "findings": they ARE REQUIRED TO assume a massive amount of incompetence and stupidity on the part of a whole lot of experienced professionals, such as the camerman, Air Force generals, an editor at Jane's, and those of us who've seen dozens of live missile launches as well as contrails over the skies of L.A.
They ARE REQUIRED to assume that their mighty brains are much superior. And then they have guys like Sto flattering them even further, that not only are they smarter, but they're somehow wiser, while those of us who have SEEN these things for real, like the cameraman, for Pete's sake!!!! -- are exhibiting shrill overreactions based on paranoia and ignorance.
Meanwhile, those of us who understand the reality have either shrugged it off long ago and marveled at the gullibility and ego of many good Americans, or continue to try to open people's eyes so they know to be on their toes because something odd is going down and their government is trying to pull the wool over their easy-prey eyes.
The way I see it, three kinds of FReepers endorse the plane ID thing:
1. Victims of a very aggressive and sophisticated effort to obscure, with scientific-looking hocus-pocus, what actually happened, topped by psychological flattery.
2. Ill-meaning types (and I doubt any of them are actually long-time FREepers) who aim to deceive good Americans.
3. True patriots who know full well that it was a missile of some kind but who think that accepting the official "cover story" is the patriotic thing to do. They may be right.
But here's the thing: as somebody pointed out (I think it was NIteflyr or Justa), the U.S. government is pretty powerful, but not powerful enough to alter the sun, and the sun is what tells the truth: if it is to be trusted that the video was shot toward the Pacific horizong, the video clearly shows an object heading north west; the light cast by the setting sun shows it.
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