In Support of Westboro Baptist [Dr. Terry Jones "burn a Koran" supports Fred Phelps]

Dove World Outreach Center ^ | April 21, 2010

[earlJam]

In Support of Westboro Baptist

By Fran Ingram - Posted on 21 April 2010

On Sunday April 18, Westboro Baptist Church came to Gainesville. One of their stops was a liberal "Open doors, open hearts, open minds," church near us, so we took part of our Sunday Service time and went as a church to stand with them.

/snip

I have been asked most often in the last days about the 'protests' that Westboro does at funerals.

The arguemant (from very angry people with extremely ugly language) is that their attendance at funerals is offensive and a fallen soldier is NOT a sign of God's wrath.

My answer:

Westboro Baptist is not anti-military or anti-USA. Rather the opposite, actually. Do some research. They go to funerals because the Bible says that a fallen soldier is a sign of God's wrath and a reminder of the condition of this world, a fallen world, in sin. We all know that. None of us want to fight wars. We have to, and we honor the fallen for their sacrifice, but funerals are also a chance to repent and get our lives right with God before our own comes along.

The soldier who is already dead knows what's coming, whether they are in heaven or hell. I think they would be glad for the extra reminder to loved ones that they still have time to make a choice and use the rest of their time given here for God rather than wasting it, in a spiritual sense.

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Google cache of the Dove World article in support of Westboro Baptist Protests Against U.S. Military

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In Support of Westboro Baptist

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By Fran Ingram - Posted on 21 April 2010

On Sunday April 18, Westboro Baptist Church came to Gainesville. One of their stops was a liberal "Open doors, open hearts, open minds," church near us, so we took part of our Sunday Service time and went as a church to stand with them.

We have also learned that when you speak out about what God hates, you will be hated. We do not agree with all of Westboro's methods, but we admire their determination to find radical ways to preach the truth of the Bible, as we do. Most churches and Pastors in America try to stand on neutral ground. They are lost, weak and sick and need to repent.

Senior Pastor Sylvia Jones wrote on facebook:

Today was a historical day! People who did not know each other with nothing in common but the word of God marching in unity and putting the kingdom first, ahead of everything else! What can be more important than saving people from hell? We must stand on the truth, the word of God instead on finding reasons why we cannot be in unity! Yes we can! We can obey God and save people from going to hell!

 

You can find more pictures on our facebook page here...

I have been asked most often in the last days about the 'protests' that Westboro does at funerals.

The arguemant (from very angry people with extremely ugly language) is that their attendance at funerals is offensive and a fallen soldier is NOT a sign of God's wrath.

My answer:

Westboro Baptist is not anti-military or anti-USA. Rather the opposite, actually. Do some research. They go to funerals because the Bible says that a fallen soldier is a sign of God's wrath and a reminder of the condition of this world, a fallen world, in sin. We all know that. None of us want to fight wars. We have to, and we honor the fallen for their sacrifice, but funerals are also a chance to repent and get our lives right with God before our own comes along.

The soldier who is already dead knows what's coming, whether they are in heaven or hell. I think they would be glad for the extra reminder to loved ones that they still have time to make a choice and use the rest of their time given here for God rather than wasting it, in a spiritual sense.

At DWOC we are also very pro-America, pro-Military, AND super, radically concerned about people's salvation. That's why we go after Islam and say it is of the devil - it is anti-Christian and anti-America. In this liberal world, names and labels get thrown about and twisted at random. Don't we all get angry with the media for preaching half truths which amount to lies?
To my Christian friends, get your Bibles out and read the OT Prophets. They were hated too for speaking God's words of truth, then killed. I would rather be right with God than right with facebook friends. Where are you?

And another answer:

If we lived in a sinless, no devil world, there would be no war. We have chosen sin, there are therefore wars, and we all suffer, we all need to repent. I'm OK with your thinking I am sick, but think about the fact that the Bible is what I am talking about, not my own ideas. Don't you think that a fallen soldier reflects some of what is wrong with the world? Not the soldier but the war itself?

What is the point of not making people angry and uncomfortable in this life if that means they go on, clueless, rebellious, straight to hell. I would have to answer to God for that. I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ and to stand with other Christians that preach it truthfully. Did the prophets and leaders in the Bible, even Jesus, did they always peach a nice sweet message? Did they always respect the sensibilities and traditions of the people? Think about it. Read your Bibles, people!

I have a Grandfather that died in WWII.  I am proud of his contribution to that war. But he and my family are Christian and eternal salvation is the most important thing on our hearts. We do not think Westboro are hateful. They point out what God hates, desperate, like the Prophets of old that no one go to hell.

Jesus said, in Matthew 7:13,14

"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

That narrow gate is a knowledge of the truth, a fear of God, Jesus Christ's sacrifice on the cross for your sins, repentance from our sins and wickedness, as we are warned throughout the Bible. This is the hope for you, the hope for your family, the hope for our Nation, for the world.

And yes, if my husband died I would be glad if Westboro would come and hold their signs and sing at his funeral. Many people would be shocked, but they might be shocked into a fear of God and a decision for Christ. How will they know if someone does not tell them?

 

[CajunConservative]

You do bring up a very important point. Your post reminded me of a story I read out of the UK. This blog has tons of stories and information that gets ignored here.

Muslim Rapes Christian Toddler for Refusal to Convert to Islam

Make sure you read this story too about what is in store for the US down the road if we don't nip this movement in the bud.

Charlene Downes: Allegedly Pimped, Raped, Murdered by Islamic Pedophile Gang then minced into burgers and fed to kuffars

[Polybius]

I read it. Aren’t most of the new mosques and prison imams Wahhabi’s?

The Wahabis do preach strict adherence to the Koran but it is a sect.

"Islamist" is a much broader term.

Think of a Muslim sect as a "denomination" in Christianity. In 16th Century Europe, you could have the Calvinists and the Lutherans and the Catholics, etc.

The term "Islamist" does not imply a particular sect. It only implies a "My way or we will kill you" mentality. The Islamist wants maximum killing power by advocating that the Government be run according to his own sect's law.

For the sake of argument, let's call all the 16th Century European religious zealots, be they Calvinist or Catholic, "Christians" ... although, by 21st Century standards, they were no such thing.

When the Government of Calvinist Geneva or the Spanish Inquisition burned somebody for not towing the religious law, they could both be called "Christianists" ..... "Believe in my version of Chritianity or be burned at the stake!"

As you see, many different sects or denominations can take that attitude. So, the term is not limited to one sect or denomination.

At this point, we have to differentiate between the religious fanatics with the swords and the guns and most everyday "Christians" and "Muslims".

Most "Catholics" in Spain did not want the Inquisition being the Big Brother that could fry you if you said the wrong thing to your neighbor, the snitch, after drinking too much. Most young people in the cities of Iran do not want the Mullah Police to be cramming the Koran down their throats.

The population, however, still considered themselves to be "Muslim" or "Catholic". They do not want religion to be crammed down their throat by Big Brother but they would be insulted if a foreigner burns the Bible or the Koran.

The Islamist rising is a relatively recent political phenomenon. In the days of Nasser, nationalism was the ideology of the day and Arab strongmen kept Islamists under a very tight leash, if not in prison.

So did the "Muslim" Shah of Iran.

Saddam Hussein was such a man. Saddam was a "MINO" ... a "Muslim in Name Only". He only paid lip-service to Islam when he needed to for political expediency. He even had a Koran printed up with ink that contained some of his own blood ... or so he claimed.

In the Muslim world there is now an ongoing war war between the Islamist nutjobs and most Muslims that do not want the Religious Police to cram the Koran down their throats. The Republic of Turkey has been waging that war since the 1920's when Attaturk took power.

We need to identify who the enemy is. As Christians, we would fight any Christian religious fanatic that tries to impose his interpretation of the Bible on us at the point of a gun. Be that as it may, we would defend the Bible.

So it is with most Muslims, including our Muslim allies that are fighting side by side with us against the Islamist nutjobs.

The bottom line is that, if an English church insulted all Catholics in order to lash out at Irish Republican Army terrorists, they would also be insulting you as a Cajun Catholic and they would be insulting me as a Cuban Catholic .... Right?

Even if you and I only go to Mass when one of our relatives has a funeral.

[Brad from Tennessee]

God bless you and your colleagues for sacrificing your time, money and safety to bring some real comfort and support to the bereaved during their time of pain and emotional vulnerability. I can't think of anything on earth more spiritually reassuring—and redeeming of man—than Patriot Guards protecting grieving families and friends from this cult of inbred psychotics.

Thank You

[Polybius]

Our goverment make a big issue about a few korans being burned here , but says nothing about hundreds of churches being burned by islamic terrorists in the mideast.

This is not about "fairness". This is about military common sense.

The Islamist terrorists are equal opportunity bombers. They have no problem whatsoever bombing a mosque in order to stir up hatred. The Islamists want Irqis fighting Iraqis and Iraqis fighting Americans.

The Islamist tactic is "Divide and Conquer" and this Koran burning plays right into their hands as I outlined in Post 222 to CajunConservative.

*****

The bottom line is that, if an English church insulted all Catholics in order to lash out at Irish Republican Army terrorists, they would also be insulting you as a Cajun Catholic and they would be insulting me as a Cuban Catholic .... Right?

Even if you and I only go to Mass when one of our relatives has a funeral.

*****

During war, it is imperative to avoid hate and distrust between allies.

During World War II, Eisenhower's staff included both Americans and allied British officers. When some British and American officers were in a heated discussion over some operation, one of the American officers threw every cuss word know to man at his British counterpart.

Eisenhower promptly fired him from his staff.

In the meeting with Eisenhower, the officer requested permission to speak freely. When permission was granted, the officer told Eisenhower that war was not a matter for the squeamish and that obscene language was a normal part of war.

Eisenhower replied, "I did not fire you because you called him a dirty &%$# *&@#*!.

I fired you because you called him a dirty Limey &%$# *&@#*!.

What you two do between yourselves, I do not care. However, I cannot and will not tolerate having anyone turning the rest of our allies against us."

[Neoliberalnot]

I’m going to scream this from the rooftops, folks. THESE PEOPLE ARE TROLLS!!!!!!! Look at the timing, here. Look at the ‘church’.....the ‘media’......the ‘government response’.

I have never thought the WBC was ‘Christian’. Quite the opposite......with the goal to smear Christians. It happens online (fake websites).....it’s gotta happen IRL.””

BINGO!. The WBC hates Christians and loves homos. Their intention is to make Christians look bad while softening normal peoples’ disgust with homosexuals.

[CajunConservative]

You assume much if you think I’m Catholic just because I happen to be of Cajun heritage. I’m not Catholic, never have been and the majority of my ancestors were Protestants. We aren’t in the 16th century where people were mostly illiterate and had no access to information like we do today. As has been pointed out time and again, Islam is not just a religion but a total system of governing. The goal of islam is to usher in Sharia law. If the moderates wish to change things they will have to do more than they are doing now.

I am not an islamic apologist at all. If the Wahhabi’s are funding the majority of the mosques HERE in the US then their ideology is what is being taught. That sect is islamist. As a woman, I will vehemently fight the creeping sharia that is happening here in this country today. Women have much more to lose in this battle than men.

One of the issues is the move of stifling free speech. If our fundamental right to free speech is trampled on then this country is no longer truly free. I may detest every word or action that someone does but as long as it’s legal then we should be making dang sure that their rights are not infringed upon.

Nip it in the bud or pay the consequences later.

[TopQuark]

"I think you may be confusing supporting’freedom of speech and expression’ with supporting him."

I think you are confusing support for freedom of speech and expression with support of all speech and all forms of expression. This logical fallacy is called pars pro toto (taking a part for the whole).

[TopQuark]

"we have freedoms in this country to express our opinions."

I never questioned that freedom. Most people on these threads support not the freedom but the action itself. That's not the same thing. In addition, most people here confuse the legal freedom and morality of doing something. It's strange (and, I admit, upsetting for me) to see conservatives being so morality confused and advocating methods that have heretofore been used by the Inquisition, Nazis and Communists.

[MarAR]

I would like to add that if you look at the signs, you will notice that you don’t see any saying Jesus is the Way, the Truth, the Life. Jesus saves!

[Cubs Fan]

This pastor and this church have a constitutional right, under freedom of speech and religion, to burn the koran, and anybody who says they don’t is an intolerant bigoted christianophobe.

On the other hand, building a mosque at ground zero needs to be called off immediately because it is: disgraceful, divisive, inolerant, idiotic and dangerous and will probably inspire violent attacks against Muslims.

[earlJam]

I don’t know why your post was pulled last night. If I recall, it only offered your opinion that liberals in the media were conspiring with these protesters to make us look bad... or something like that.

We have had several people today make the same argument.

[a real Sheila]

I hear ya.
I think they have the RIGHT to burn any book they choose.
And we have the RIGHT to IGNORE THEM.

The media is fanning the flames on this issue.
IF the media and protestors stayed away, this would just be a tiny blip on the radar.

[a fool in paradise]

The argument being made by our government is that protest actions in America can have a deadly impact on US troops (and foreign contractors like Haliburton employees).

The government isn't saying that this man has an ugly history and questionable associations with people like Phelps.

They are saying that desecrating a koran is morally offensive and the State Department condemns those who would do such a thing that provokes offense.

Yet when Hillary Clinton was a Senator she defended public money going to an exhibition in NY with Mary depicted in elephant dung saying that those who are offended need to just suck it up.

And when it was pointed out that ANSWER and CODE PINK were emboldening the enemy in a time of war by providing justification for “insurgents” rising up against our troops, we were told in no uncertain terms by the woman who herself declared in February 2002 that “BUSH KNEW” in advance about the 9-11 attacks, “I'm sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and disagree with this administration, somehow you're not patriotic.”

So which is it?

I don't defend the messenger, but I certainly defend his right to desecrate a koran. The same and worse has been done for decades to the American flag and to Bibles stateside.

Barack Obama was MENTORED personally by the racist hate monger Jeremiah Wright in his church of God "Damn" America.

I CANNOT be smeared by any talk of Jones or any other figure. I never attended his church. Never championed his agenda. He has a right and that right is being trampled by the same Marxist government that trampled on my religion since my birth.

[a fool in paradise]

Meanwhile the media has a blackout on the statements from the Ground Zero mosque Imam who accuses the United States of terrorism.

The Saudi invested media is paying off a dividend.

[a fool in paradise]

I never questioned that freedom. Most people on these threads support not the freedom but the action itself.

Where is the heavy FReeper condemnation of this gag that gets printed now and then on FR then?

It's the same thing. Same argument. They say it is "blasphemy".

I condemn the Christian churches that are ushering in apostasy by reading from the koran in church in "counter protest".

You can denounce an action without raising up the koran a "the word of god".

I oppose Marxism and Nazism political systems as well as Sharia law.

Muslims are able to worship as they please, they have zero standing to push for Islamic law. The Saudis have zero room to complain as they have zero religious freedom for non-muslims.

Siding with the OIC to condemn Jones also puts people in a place of siding with some horrible Islamic supremacists.

Don't lump people in boats.

[P-Marlowe]

Perhaps the govt. (left-wing or right-wing) should have big bonfire-book burning rallies and burn every book they don`t like.

They did that with bibles in Afghanistan.

[VictoryGal]

>>They are burning Korans to illustrate that muslims will go ape shit over it...

>That is probably true, the simplest explanation is usually correct.. However, do note the link, they are fans of Fred Phelps and his Westboro loons... that makes me wonder what side they may be playing in this.

Like Phelps, it looks like they’re in it to promote themselves and their wallets. Conservatives would do well to avoid this trainwreck in progress, who clearly cares more about being famous than doing the right thing.

[VictoryGal]

> I support the burning of the Koran as freedom of expression.

They have a right to do it. You have a right to support them.

> I dont care who does it...it’s being done to smoke out the so called “moderate” muslims... More power to em...

So.... you wouldn’t have a problem with witches burning the Bible? Or filthy communists burning the flag?

Both of these, along with the Koran burning, are legal under the First Amendment. But all three of these are offensive and pointless, in my opinion.