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To: GourmetDan
Better to just honestly admit that you hold to a particular philosophical worldview. That would destroy science's credibility in this area, however because it would then be obvious that it is simply a competing yet opposite philosophy. It is only by irrationally clinging to the claim of being 'scientific' that the scientific 'house of cards' stands to the uninformed masses. This is why 'scientists' resist admitting that they hold to a philosophy.

I'm assuming you mean hypothesize, test,evaluate is a philosophy. I so, I concur. Never thought of it as such. It's just a way to solve problems that deals with what we can observe. And is repeatable. To many disparate researches.

Well, that street goes both ways. Show me one example where science is allowed to come to a conclusion that is non-natural. The fact that you can generate irrational statements doesn't support your belief in naturalism.

Ok then, beginning of life. Science just doesn't know how life began. The reasons are varied. The hypotheses are many. No one theory exists. And a creator is one such hypothesis. But the key to a scientific explanation is testability. And a Creator, if we could look at many different worlds with life, has the possibility for testability. A variant of this was a Deep Space 9 episode I think

And P can be refuted. Look at early ideas for origin of universe.From Earth centered to Heliocentric to Galaxycentric to Universe itself. P is often rejected due to data and predictions based on P.

Have you ever done real science???? Seriously.

215 posted on 06/29/2010 12:50:58 PM PDT by morkfork (Candygram for Mongo)
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To: morkfork
"I'm assuming you mean hypothesize, test,evaluate is a philosophy. I so, I concur. Never thought of it as such. It's just a way to solve problems that deals with what we can observe. And is repeatable. To many disparate researches."

Nope, wrong again. Assuming naturalism is a philosophy.

"Ok then, beginning of life. Science just doesn't know how life began. The reasons are varied. The hypotheses are many. No one theory exists. And a creator is one such hypothesis. But the key to a scientific explanation is testability. And a Creator, if we could look at many different worlds with life, has the possibility for testability. A variant of this was a Deep Space 9 episode I think"

Too much fantasy in your life, I think. Deep Space 9 is a TV show, not a scientific paper. No scientific paper can be published which appeals to a supernatural creator for the origin of life. A 'natural' creator only pushes the problem of the origin of life off of the earth and out into deep-space 'somewhere', making it even more unobservable. Think outside of the naturalism box, outside.

"And P can be refuted. Look at early ideas for origin of universe.From Earth centered to Heliocentric to Galaxycentric to Universe itself. P is often rejected due to data and predictions based on P."

A natural explanation for P can never be refuted. I already explained that P is often refuted because of the fallacy of affirming the consequent, it is always a natural explanation because of the philosophy of naturalism. I see that you still have not understood how those two concepts work together to deceive.

And actually, the geocentric model was never refuted. It is still valid under GR. Popularity votes do not a refutation make. You don't seem to be able to distinguish between science and opinion very well.

“Can we formulate physical laws so that they are valid for all CS [coordinate systems], not only those moving uniformly, but also those moving quite arbitrarily, relative to each other? […] The struggle, so violent in the early days of science, between the views of Ptolemy and Copernicus would then be quite meaningless. Either CS could be used with equal justification. The two sentences: “the sun is at rest and the earth moves” or “the sun moves and the earth is at rest” would simply mean two different conventions concerning two different CS.”

Einstein, A. and Infeld, L. (1938) The Evolution of Physics, p.212 (p.248 in original 1938 ed.);

"...Thus we may return to Ptolemy's point of view of a 'motionless earth'...One has to show that the transformed metric can be regarded as produced according to Einstein's field equations, by distant rotating masses. This has been done by Thirring. He calculated a field due to a rotating, hollow, thick-walled sphere and proved that inside the cavity it behaved as though there were centrifugal and other inertial forces usually attributed to absolute space. Thus from Einstein's point of view, Ptolemy and Copernicus are equally right."

Born, Max. "Einstein's Theory of Relativity",Dover Publications,1962, pgs 344 & 345:

“The relation of the two pictures [geocentricity and heliocentricity] is reduced to a mere coordinate transformation and it is the main tenet of the Einstein theory that any two ways of looking at the world which are related to each other by a coordinate transformation are entirely equivalent from a physical point of view.... Today we cannot say that the Copernican theory is ‘right’ and the Ptolemaic theory ‘wrong’ in any meaningful physical sense.”

Hoyle, Fred. Nicolaus Copernicus. London: Heinemann Educational Books Ltd., 1973.

"People need to be aware that there is a range of models that could explain the observations,” Ellis argues. “For instance, I can construct you a spherically symmetrical universe with Earth at its center, and you cannot disprove it based on observations.” Ellis has published a paper on this. “You can only exclude it on philosophical grounds. In my view there is absolutely nothing wrong in that. What I want to bring into the open is the fact that we are using philosophical criteria in choosing our models. A lot of cosmology tries to hide that.”

Ellis, George, in Scientific American, "Thinking Globally, Acting Universally", October 1995

316 posted on 06/30/2010 5:11:39 AM PDT by GourmetDan (Eccl 10:2 - The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left.)
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