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To: stainlessbanner

I would love to have wells near me, preferably on my property. I am not going to get in a war with you over fracking. If you don’t like it then don’t allow it. But then don’t start complaining about supporting Mideast nations by importing their oil and gas, while they use our money to support terrorist organizations.

I know the fracking issue is a polarizing one in the eastern USA. But the size of the potential reserves there could take us a long way towards energy independence. If the eastern USA rejects gas development, then I am sure Texas will be glad to sell their gas to the Eastern states at greatly increased prices in the future.


14 posted on 06/16/2010 1:59:03 PM PDT by epithermal
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To: epithermal
Not complaining at all. You can't really "disallow" natural gas extraction - you can fight it, but be prepared to drag it out in court. I can't say too much on a public forum about it, but there are some cases in Texas that may interest you.

As an investor of natural gas, I would absolutely love gas prices to climb...but not at the expense of future sustainability of the environment.

The issue is not black and white, it's a multi-faceted issue with competing and compliementary issues at play.

Have a nice day.

15 posted on 06/16/2010 2:32:03 PM PDT by stainlessbanner
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To: epithermal
If you don’t like it then don’t allow it.

Wish it were that simple. Folks - and I mean, good, down-to-earth, hardworking Americans who paid for their land with real dollars and real labor - are being forced into situations that should raise the ire of any good conservative. I own a hunt camp in PA that is affected by all this. I'm a right-wing nut-job conservative and I'm pissed. Here's why:

Forced pooling. This is a form of eminent domain that takes the choice of leasing/not-leasing away from a land owner. If a certain number of surrounding properties sign leases in a leasing unit, then the hold-outs are forced into it without signing any kind of agreement that will protect their interests. That means their mineral rights are surrendered, the minerals (gas, in this case) will be taken anyway, and they will be given a token pittance in exchange.

Then there is the split estate condition - a situation where one owner owns the surface rights and a different owner owns the subsurface oil-gas-mineral rights (OGM). In the U.S., the OGM rights trump the surface rights. Not only can they not opt out of drilling, the surface owners have not been able to control where the access roads go, where the drill pads go, where the tank batteries go, or any of the infrastructure that supports the well before-during-after the drilling. Thus we have these activities going on literally outside American citizens' windows, their fields being converted into impoundment ponds, crops damaged, herd damaged, timber damaged, noise 24/7, odors, light shining in their windows all night.... The noise, disruption and industrialization go a long way toward 1) reducing surface property values because they are blighted by the industrial zone, and 2) taking away whatever enjoyment the surface owner had in the place.

The latest good times in PA is forcing landowners to accommodate pipelines on their property. The pipeline companies are seeking public utility status so that property can be seized via eminent domain (option of public condemnation) for the pipeline. Others have convinced the state to utilize roadside easements. It's not that people are against the pipelines 100% - they're necessary, everyone knows that - it's little things like running it on the OTHER side of the road where there's an empty field, instead of running it through people's yards. There were several pipeline explosions this summer that have people nervous about having them so close to their houses. It's a valid concern given these are rural areas with equally rural emergency services. It's also important to remember that the majority of these pipelines will be gathering lines and all the gas in them is pre-market going from the wellhead to the compressor station where it will be odorized and brought into distribution. So neighbors are asking if this is *really* a public utility activity, or just taking more private land to support private companies.

Another form of taking is having to subsidize the whole mess by sacrificing public infrastructure. The roads, particularly. Back in the 50's there was a desire by liberal pols to 'bring PA into modern times' by capping the rural roads with asphalt. Those same roads all have signs that say "10 TON LIMIT". Because those roads are just a dirt road with a cap - they were NEVER engineered to handle anything except rural traffic. Now we have hundreds and thousands of gravel trucks, water trucks, chemical trucks, all manner of heavy equipment running over them. They're being reduced to rubble and will be dirt roads once again. Yes, yes, the companies all pledge to restore the roads "when they're done". They might be done 20 years from now (it's one of those lease loop-hole tricks) but in the meantime, the local populace will foot the bill. These municipalities can't afford to do that.

Then there is all the taking of the water. It requires millions upon millions of gallons of water to run these kinds of drill operations. Its coming out of the streams and lakes. They're low, really low. But only so shockingly low in the areas where there's drilling (it seems to rain just fine everywhere else in the state). The outdoorsmen (not environmentalist wackos, but the kind of men you'd go have a beer with while you fish) are very alarmed that there doesn't seem to be much management going on. Just taking.

So please PLEASE keep in mind that not everyone who is opposed to this is a leftist dirty-hippie environmentalist wacktard who wants us all to live in mud huts or caves in the cold and the dark! These are conservative Americans who are speaking out over the taking and taking and taking and taking of their private property and its value to support this enterprise. (Kelo vs. New London anyone? anyone? Bueller? Bueller?) Not everyone who is opposed to this believes in a "We do it this way, right now or civilization ends!" scenario. By all means drill, but do it with less impact, less coercion, and less abuse of rights.

A Penn State professor by the name of Terry Engelder recently stated that enduring these kinds of abuses were part of a NECESSARY SACRIFICE (See page 4 and 8 of this .PDF "PSU Prof Disputes Damage"). (Engelder is also an industry shill - working for a consulting firm but has failed to disclose to PSU what his compensation is.)

Necessary sacrifice. Really? Is that what we've come to in this country where some Citizens have to sacrifice their rights, their property and their pursuit of happiness just because the mob says so?

Interesting that so many on this thread seem to be down with that.

22 posted on 07/18/2010 4:34:44 AM PDT by Lil'freeper (-ski)
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