Posted on 04/29/2010 10:38:21 AM PDT by AJKauf
Open carry advocates, as a gun rights subgroup, are the continuing negligent political discharge of the shooting community. Their disastrous nationwide campaign to normalize the open carrying of firearms alienates Americans from coast to coast, even among those who champion the concealed carry of weapons.
You only need to look at examples of the media incompetence of these groups in the past year to understand how this theoretically pro-gun movement has managed to cause the public to recoil in horror and actually set the movement back on its heels. It is enough to make you wonder if the group isn’t the operation that “Crash the Tea Party” wanted to be, executed by the otherwise inept anti-gun harpies.
Other than small-scale displays primarily consumed by the local news, the open carry movement is known to most people for precisely two awkward public displays: an August 17, 2009, protest in Phoenix and one this past Sunday on the Potomac’s Virginia shores....
(Excerpt) Read more at pajamasmedia.com ...
Bob Owens need to have his pajama’s license revoked.
Don’t get me wrong, I am not saying law-abiding people that conceal carry are criminals. Or shouldn’t conceal carry when to them, it makes reasonable sense to. I believe in certain cases, depending where I’m going and such, it would be more advantageous for me to be carrying concealed.
I just point this out this way because no criminal open carries. Police open carry. People are used to seeing ‘good guys’ open carry. All they have to have click in their head is that law-abiding citizens that open carry are also the ‘good guys’. They would be concealed or open carrying.
The other problem with concealed carry is when you pull a gun out from its concealed position, others that don’t know what’s going on around you don’t have any instinctual clue you’re one of the good guys. When crap goes down, thugs pull out their concealed guns. When crap goes down, good guys like cops remove their open carry weapons.
Yup, that's what I meant, sorry. I definitely support those who wish to conceal carry instead of open carry. I also conceal carry depending on the situation. Plus, when I visit NY daily, I have no choice, I must conceal carry.
I didn’t say I don’t understand the word. The word has legal meaning beyond the dictionary definition, i.e., federal law defines brandished as, “all or part of the weapon was displayed, or the presence of the weapon was otherwise made known to another person, in order to intimidate that person, regardless of whether the weapon was directly visible to that person. Accordingly, although the dangerous weapon does not have to be directly visible, the weapon must be present.” (18 USCS Appx § 1B1.1)
I suppose we could debate “to intimidate”, but if a stated purpose of carrying in the open is to command ‘respect’ or otherwise communicate the ability to inflict serious bodily harm or death, lawfully or otherwise, it is arguably intimidation. Even a concealed weapon can be brandished, but open display would make the ‘to intimidate’ element much easier to establish. The distinction between carrying with the intent that it be seen by the casual observer and brandishing is not a bright line.
Herein lies the problem - we cave in on issues in order to not “offend” others. The focus should be on the fact that people who have CCW’s are typically not the ones who go out on rampages and begin shooting people or things up. IMHO we should be clearly making the case that law abiding citizens are not the problem when it comes to legal gun ownership and open carry. Every time we tuck tail and run from the issue we get beat. You are saying that unless we tuck tail and run from the issue we will get beat. Catch 22? How do you advocate for open carry or CCW laws if you cannot demonstrate how/why these laws are needed and useful.
As for the comparing/contrasting this issue with abortion - rubbish. People who are that easily offended by the sight of the aftermath of an abortion would not have been supportive of PRO-LIFE legislation anyway. I find it interesting that 1) you decided to use the abortion issue to compare with open carry/conceal carry, and 2) that you decided to frame it as anti-abortion. Gives me pause for thought on which side of the fence you sit upon.
LOL - pithy.
I’m looking forward to the day the new law in AZ takes effect that allows me to carry concealed without having to register with our State masters. 90 days from tomorrow. I’m going shopping for a nice shoulder holster....
So, if you were a cop, you would arrest open carriers for brandishing, or at the very least, disorderly conduct. Amazing to state here on "Free" Republic.
The distinction between carrying with the intent that it be seen by the casual observer and brandishing is not a bright line.
Actually, it is in most states, though admittedly I don't know what communist utopia you live in. There is no "brandishing" law here in Pennsylvania, and courts have determined that merely open carrying does not meet the statutory requirements for disorderly conduct.
Now, if someone is going around with a gun on their hip shouting to people that they can or would shoot them, that's a different ball of wax, but not one we're addressing here. Besides, that's assault, not brandishing.
I don’t know, I’ve never asked them. I do know that they don’t seem to have a problem with people that have concealed carry permits. I don’t think it’s much of an issue to them.
Concealed carry without a permit would be great. While I still couldn’t carry one with me on days I go to work, I would like to be able to carry concealed otherwise, or at least have one in my console or glove box.
“So, if you were a cop, you would arrest open carriers for brandishing, or at the very least, disorderly conduct. Amazing to state here on “Free” Republic.”
I was a cop, and I had discretion, but there was no crime for ‘brandishing’. Open carry IS illegal in some jurisdictions. And which disorderly conduct statute/ordinance are you citing? They vary vastly even within a state, as the municipal versions are often different. The law I cited was federal. And assault statutes/ordinances vary as well, but generally require imminence, intent and apparent ability, if that’s what you mean.
The problem I have with carrying, whether open or concealed, is that a lot of the places I go to don’t permit firearms in their place of business. So, I can’t carry when I am most likely to need it.
And yes, open carry is illegal in NY, where I own a business, so I stick to CC there.
Well, the business owners do have their rights also. At least you can have it in your vehicle, which is better than at home, locked up.
It does vary from state to state (I see a lot more No Firearms signs when I travel to Ohio than I do in PA). But you're right. Private property rights are still tantamount in my book. If you own a business, you should be able to have any policy you wish. I will, likewise, choose not to do business with you.
Fortunately, I can't think of anyone locally that forbids firearms. Even the local malls have a "No firearms except as permitted by federal and state law" policy.
I believe very strongly in the merchants’ rights to forbid carrying on the premises. I don’t like laws that would force them to allow carrying.
Bull.
I agree.
I agree, its one thing to open carry out in the woods or in rural areas but in suburban or urban areas it’s a really bad idea. Just think how we would react to a bunch of gang bangers standing around on a corner with open carried weapons.
As a tactual matter its foolish to open carry as you are giving up your best advantage. Surprise and violence of action, without it’s going to be a fair fight and when it comes to defending my life I never want to fight fair as in some mythical Hollywood western.
Number one, criminals nearly always conceal carry.
Number two, the "tactical disadvantage" of open carry is a foolish statement. What criminal decides to enter INTO a gun fight? Most, if not all, will consider another target upon learning that their initial target is not an easy prey.
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