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. Well, if I take this literally (though it has nothing to do with our topic at hand), I'd say life of the flesh is already developed as early as day 21 if not before. Oh, well, another idiotic argument destroyed. Man, how people set themselves up...

Nevertheless, Eagle Eye's argument is valid. The definition of life in Leviticus is in relation to the blood flowing through the veins and it is the blood which is said to carry the life. Therefore from a strictly biblical standpoint, I believe a legitimate argument can be made that abortion is not a "murder" in the biblical sense unless it stops a beating heart.

Now while some of us may believe that it is murder to abort before the heart begins to beat, that does not necessarily mean that we have a biblical basis for our position.

So let's knock off the invective diatribes against Eagle Eye on this point. He has a valid point. Now can anyone point to a biblical verse which provides evidence that life from a biblical standpoint begins before the heart begins to beat? If so, use that to refute Eagle Eye. If not, then let's stop with the personal invectives.

Marlowe

I suggest you go back and visit the site I linked to. The heart is already developed by day 21. By day 30 it is already pumping larger quantities of blood.

So as you put it, if blood carries life, then the heart pumping blood at day 30, or even 21 being fully developed, means there is life. It just hasn't been 'born' as yet. Therefore, this 'strictly biblical argument' you define is backed up by medical fact.

I believe a legitimate argument can be made that abortion is not a "murder" in the biblical sense unless it stops a beating heart.

Ah, but as shown above, it does.

Now can anyone point to a biblical verse which provides evidence that life from a biblical standpoint begins before the heart begins to beat?

As previously argued above: Jeremiah 1:5 that says "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations."

God knows us before we were even formed. He has consecrated us before our birth. Please tell me how an abortion doesn't fly in the face of God's design?

Oh, and there's also been the argument about still born fetuses. That is God's design, not man's. It's His will we should be honoring, not the will of the parent to make life simpler for oneself, or because the fetus is a burden.

Again, how is it proper to destroy the child for the sins of the father? God does, yes. But we're not God.

So let's knock off the invective diatribes against Eagle Eye on this point.

And what of Eagle Eye's invective diatribes against us? Calling me a liar? No comments on that? If I recall correctly, he was the one who began with the invectives.

The fetus is alive whether there is blood in it or not.

Saying that the life is in the blood does not say that without blood there is no life.

Leviticus 17 is not a valid argument for abortion not being murder. The whole chapter is dealing with sacrifices and the eating of blood, not related to murder or whether something is alive without blood being in it.

So no, that is not a valid argument.

Jeremiah 1:5 "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations."

It is obvious that clause A refers to God knowing the person PRIOR to their construction in the womb. Therefore, to disrupt the child before the blood is formed is to do a few things:

1. It violates God's intent.

2. It ignores that life is, at that point, being SHARED with/by God Himself.

3. It violates "a man...be united to his wife and they shall be one flesh." Obviously, the man and woman are never the same person. Therefore, the one flesh they are speaking of is the uniting of their bodies to form a new human. That uniting is from the moment the sperm says "Howdy" to the egg. And it is a new "flesh" at that moment of their union.

Those 3 can only add up to the personhood of the conceived new human.