Posted on 04/05/2010 3:13:26 PM PDT by wagglebee
Again, this IS NOT what the Bible says. Read Genesis 3:15, it says HER seed, that means the Blessed Virgin Mary. Read the first chapter of the Gospel of Saint Luke. Our Lord Jesus Christ was born of His mother and carried in her womb and He takes His humanity from her.
Paul identifies Jesus Christ as the creator of all things. John identifies Jesus Christ as the person to whom Moses spoke on Mt. Sinai. John in Revelation identifies Jesus Christ as the First and the Last, the Alpha and the Omega and The Almighty.
Clearly Jesus is God. The Father is God and the Holy Spirit is God. As wagglebee noted, Matthew 28:19 notes that Baptism is in the Name (singular) of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit (plural). The first verse of the Bible identifies God as both singular and plural.
You accuse others of not looking at the plain verses that somehow identify Jesus as not being the Eternal God, but there are dozens of verses which clearly and unequivocally identify his Divinity and his co-eternal deity with the Father.
You just choose to ignore those verses.
Now if someone wants to claim that Jesus has divine blood because of his miraculous conception (you do agree with me on that, don't you?) and that his blood never mixed with humans descended from Adam then I can't argue with you.
It seems you believe in Jesus as some kind of Chimera (half god/half man), but the Bible describes Jesus as 100% Man and 100% God.
Shalom.
Not so.
1Ti 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
1Jo 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jo 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
The Bible is pretty clear...God is god and Christ is a man who was in the flesh...totally in the flesh. Check the definition of 'en' and look at a greek preposition diagram. Do your research and look for yourself!
2Jo 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
100% God and 100% man is nonsense and this verse plainly states that if one does not confess (say with mouth what is believed in the heart) that Jesus came completely and totally in the flesh...well you can read it for yourself.
Jesus either came COMPLETELY in the flesh or he did not. Bible says he did. I agree with the Bible.
Clearly Jesus is God. The Father is God and the Holy Spirit is God
And somehow you are still going to say that God is one and that there is only one God?
Paul identifies Jesus Christ as the creator of all things. John identifies Jesus Christ as the person to whom Moses spoke on Mt. Sinai. John in Revelation identifies Jesus Christ as the First and the Last, the Alpha and the Omega and The Almighty.
No. No. And No.
With each of those assumptions you have to deny straightforward verses that word for word make that impossible.
Cling to your traditions, not my problem, but I can tell you have only accepted what others have taught you and drank the kool aid. You have not examined your own beliefs critically, cherry picking verses to support your ideas.
To understand Paul (who actually saw the resurrected Jesus while no man has seen God at any time...) you have to realize that as I said before, the punctuation is not always properly supplied in the KJV and the KJV authors certainly had a trinitarian bias.
Are you really saying that Jesus existed in some sort of spiritual form to talk to Moses, then one day some how became a baby? Talk about something from ancient mythology! Did Jesus exist in God's foreknowledge? Most certainly! But trying to say that the word Lord in the OT means Jesus is stretched pretty thin.
What truly puzzles me is that you can state that Jesus is God and then have no explanation of any of the differences between Jesus and God...one being invisible and never seen, one being seen by many; one never being tempted and the other being tempted in all ways; one praying to the other, one praising the other as his son who is well pleasing...etc, etc, etc.
Jesus claims to be God's son. God claims Jesus to be his son.
But you can toss all that aside due to a handful of misunderstood scriptures?
Are you denying that you implied that I would burn in hell?
Absolutely.
No. No. And No.
Wow.
Do you want the verses or do you know which ones I am referencing? Do you deny the truth of those verses? Or are you claiming that somehow you know more than the scholars who translated them or the Early Church Fathers who cannonized the scriptures?
Cling to your traditions, not my problem, but I can tell you have only accepted what others have taught you and drank the kool aid. You have not examined your own beliefs critically, cherry picking verses to support your ideas.
LOL!
I left a non-Trinitarian Cult only to be presented with the truth of the Trinitarian Gospel.
Are you now or have you ever been a Jehovah's Witness?
Not at all, I just let the scripture speak for itself and use the clear and unambiguous verses for the foundation then build from there.
Y'all seem have your theology then mold your verses around to support it and sweep the inconvenient ones aside.
As wagglebee noted, Matthew 28:19 notes that Baptism is in the Name (singular) of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit (plural).
That verse is one that is somewhat controversial in that Eusebius quoted from pre 4th century texts many times but his quotes said only 'in my name'. Add to that there is no evidence that the trinitarian baptism formula was ever carried out by those who were first hand witnesses...all baptisms were in Jesus' name, not father son holy spirit.
Again, funny how you expect me to jump thru hoops with your every challenge but nothing from you in return on how Jesus can be God if no one ever saw God, etc, etc, etc.
Are you now or have you ever been a member of the United Pentecostal Church?
Yes, I absolutely deny it.
More than an implication, IMO.
If you read scripture anything like you read posts, then it is no wonder you have all these heretical positions.
Wagglebee was joking about TV preachers and Megachurch pastors, so unless you are either a TV Preacher, a Megachurch pastor or a wannabee either of those, then there was no implication that the "burn in hell" comment was directed to you.
Frankly as a longtime member of a "megachurch", if anything, it was a dig at me. :-)
Nonsense.
Read my post, I didn't even say that those who believed such heresy were going to Hell.
I suggested that megachurch pastors and televangelists who lead people astray with such heresy would. Eagle Eye's homepage clearly states that he does government contract work, so there is no possibility that I was referring to him.
To: P-Marlowe; xzinsYou should teach a class or maybe start your own Religion.If anyone is planning to start a new religion, especially one that denies two thousand years of Christian belief, I would suggest a "megachurch" and eventually a weekly TV show. The trick is to get as many members as possible and to give regular (at least monthly) sermons on tithing. Then speak of how God wants everyone to be very wealthy and use yourself as an example.
Know that you will probably burn in Hell for leading so many astray and you will be ridiculed endlessly for your bizarre beliefs; but if you do it right, your earthly rewards will at least be plentiful.
Do you mean to tell me I can’t tell anti-Trinitarians that they’re going to burn in hell?
Shucks.
I mean....they don’t know the real God....
just sayin’...
Next thing I know I’ll be told that I can’t make snide remarks about P-M being a Pentecostal snake handler.
Be careful!
P-M is my favorite Snake Handler
Mine too!
So which group scored higher on the IQ tests? The Snake handlers or the snakes?
The guys with sweat pouring off of them are probably more intelligent than the snakes, but not as intelligent as those of us who don’t pick them up in the first place.
Read Acts 28, Saint Paul didn’t know the snake was in the firewood.
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