Posted on 04/05/2010 3:13:26 PM PDT by wagglebee
Wow, are you the oracle of God that you feel you have the authority to speak for Him?
2Cr 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech [you] by us: we pray [you] in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
And if God doesn't talk to you then that says volumes about your spiritual walk with him.
Pay close attention to what I originally wrote:
No, you are the one with the Obamaspeak if you don't recognize that a fetus, a child and an adult are all HUMAN BEINGS.
I was very clear when I used the word IF; so, if you don't, you don't.
And you are proving my point of the blatant dishonesty in pro lifers like you!
Where have I been dishonest?
Again, I challenge you to find anything I've said that advocates or "pushes" abortion.
Let's try another reading comprehension exercise:
The only muddling on this thread has been by those pushing abortion.
Now, if I had used the phrase "you and others pushing abortion," you would have a valid point; however, I didn't so you don't.
You are no different than the race baiters. Same spirit of lies.
Except you have failed to demonstrate any dishonesty on my part. Trust me, there are plenty of people on FR who actually are pushing abortion, I have no reason to falsely accuse anyone.
Typical pro-abort/pro-choice justification for supporting abortion, is that if there is no life or it's not human, then there is no murder, therefore by declaring that at some stage of a human's life that it's not really human or not really alive, then abortion is not murder.
But your *God given common sense* falls short because it's not just ending any life that's murder, but ending HUMAN life is murder. Putting down an animal is not murder even if it's ending a life.
If you don't want to be accused of being pro-abortion, then you need to stop carrying their banner for them. As long as you post pro-abortion arguments, you're going to be called pro-abortion no matter how much you deny it.
So I challenged your world view that life begins and conception and that all abortion is murder by showing you were the Bible disagrees with you.
The Bible says (here I am speaking for God...lol) that the life of the flesh is in the blood.
And we know from science that there is no blood flow for several weeks after conception.
That would seem to logically indicate that without blood there is no life and without life there is no murder.
Did I at any time say that abortion was a good thing or that I approved? I don’t think so yet your cohorts have openly accused me of such. Will you also?
You need to find an actual statement that supports your accusation, not just your convoluted logic to prove your own point.
Some people say that killing animals is murder. Just because they say it doens't make them right.
Just because you accuse me of being pro abortion doesn't make it so, it just shows a basic lack of honesty on your behalf just like the race baiters and your tactics are very similar to Sharton's.
When someone disagrees with you, play the pro abort card just like he plays the race card. It used to work.
Now all it does is show off your dishonesty.
Common sense alone would tell you that the fetus is human and living from the time of conception on. Even those who don’t give Scripture any credence, still have to get around two issues.
One being that the genetic make-up of the fetus is that of a human being, with any one random cell selected from that fetus containing the same DNA distinguishing it as a separate living individual would any random cell selected from that same individual as a grown adult.
The other is that as long as cell division and multiplication is going on, the fetus is growing. If it’s growing, taking in nutrients to do so, respiring in the way that is natural to it, it’s alive.
So these pro-abortionists who want to reject Scripture as support for determining the humanity of the person from conception on, still run smack into scientific support for it. They just can’t win. There’s no justification for determining a fetus not human at any stage in its development other than it’s simply the preference of the pro-abortion apologist.
They’d be better off just admitting their position is based strictly on personal preference than going through the kinds of contortions and convoluted reasoning that makes them looks like the irrational fools and hypocrites they present themselves as.
Attacking the messenger doesn’t change the message, does it?
Can early term abortion be wrong without being murder?
Or can you only make your case if you use the strongest, emotionally charged words possible?
But what if there is no life (as described in Leviticus) until several weeks into pregnancy? What if the Bible is actually correct on this?
Can abortion still be wrong without being murder? Sure.
Oh darn, I failed again to carry the pro abortion banner by calling abortion wrong.
How can you call yourself a Christian and support the murder of a baby?
This is cherry picking at its extreme. The passage reads: "Lev 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it for you on the altar to make atonement for your souls, for it is the blood that makes atonement by the life."
First, 'blood is life' is true enough. But how that can be construed that life only begins at birth is absurd. Does a fetus miraculously acquire blood at the moment of birth? Of course not. Blood is intrinsic in a fetus' development. Therefore if blood is a quantifier for life (their argument), a fetus has life in the womb.
But that is still a straw-dog argument. The passage selected has nothing to do with conception, babies, fetuses, or anything to do with human form. It is a commandment from God on the use of animal sacrifices, and an admonition to man not to eat or drink blood for the condemnation it brings: "Lev 17:14 For the life of every creature is its blood: its blood is its life. Therefore I have said to the people of Israel, You shall not eat the blood of any creature, for the life of every creature is its blood. Whoever eats it shall be cut off."
I've been accused of cherry picking passages that suit my viewpoint while ignoring the one that is important in the life cycle of a fetus - child - adult. Yeah, right. And by the cherry-picker extremist no less.
Waste no more time on this tool. He's not worth the effort.
Post 198...."Again, Adam wasn't a living soul until he breathed and the Bible says that the life of the flesh is in the blood, and blood isn't flowing in the first month or so. So without blood there isn't life. Without life there isn't killing. Without killing there isn't murder."
If you don't consider that ending the life of the fetus within the first month, when you claim there is no blood, is not murder, then you declare that it is not human.
Check out my post #250. He's using a completely irrelevant Bible passage. He calls himself a Christian. Well, then, he understands he will answer for his beliefs some day. I'm glad I'm not him. An enabler is just as evil as the killer.
You are talking to the wrong person for that.Your accusations against me hold no water.
The other is that as long as cell division and multiplication is going on, the fetus is growing. If it’s growing, taking in nutrients to do so, respiring in the way that is natural to it, it’s alive.
The Bible says that the life of the flesh is in the blood. Until there is blood there is not life per the Bible.
All kinds of organisms undergo the process you describe but the Bible says that the life of the flesh is in the blood. Plants may be alive but until someone shows me different, they do not have the same kind of life that mammals do.
It seems that you want to reject scripture because it does not fit with your beliefs.
You haven't seen me write anything disrespectful towards early stage human fetus or even suggest that they aren't human.
What I have suggested is that if these cells do not carry blood then there is no life as described by the Bible. If you not like that then maybe you need to get the wrtings changed to suit your beliefs!
Let me say this: While it is terrible for any woman to have to bear a child of some scum bag rapist, it is not the fault of the child and the child should not be killed. Put it up for adoption as soon as it is born, fine, but to kill it makes the mother, and her family, as bad as the criminal who attacked her.
Are plants alive? Jelly fish? Flatworms? Single celled bacteria? Amoebas? Protozoa? They have no blood. By your "reasoning" (for lack of a better term) they aren't alive.
Now you want to define life differently than what the Bible does, fine with me.
On what basis then?
Your pro-abortion cohort hasn't answered that question either.
You get a chance now.
Already answered. But maybe you need to do a bit of research on that to see for yourself.
Remember that the pro-aborts use these “hard cases” in order to justify ALL cases.
Let’s work on restricting the “I won’t fit my prom dress” abortions first,
and we’ll handle the hard cases later, after the easy ones are addressed.
FAIL....
What a cop out.
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