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To: Rampolla

First of all, we admire the Catholic Church and have no anti-Catholic bias.

Second, the Church has pushed strongly for universal healthcare run by government and is now aggressively pushing amnesty for illegals.

The point of the article is that although the Church objected to federal funding for abortion, it tried to implement healthcare “reform” through a fatally flawed President, and the result is federally-funded abortion.


18 posted on 03/24/2010 9:56:21 AM PDT by parkerj
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To: parkerj
I'm a Catholic and I have to agree. The funny thing is that Catholic social teaching is, at least officially, very anti-Socialist. I wonder how many Catholics have read this passage from the seminal encyclical on Catholic social doctrine, Rerum Novarum. Written in 1891, it's words are nothing short of prophetic:

4. To remedy these wrongs the socialists, working on the poor man's envy of the rich, are striving to do away with private property, and contend that individual possessions should become the common property of all, to be administered by the State or by municipal bodies. They hold that by thus transferring property from private individuals to the community, the present mischievous state of things will be set to rights, inasmuch as each citizen will then get his fair share of whatever there is to enjoy. But their contentions are so clearly powerless to end the controversy that were they carried into effect the working man himself would be among the first to suffer. They are, moreover, emphatically unjust, for they would rob the lawful possessor, distort the functions of the State, and create utter confusion in the community.

5. It is surely undeniable that, when a man engages in remunerative labor, the impelling reason and motive of his work is to obtain property, and thereafter to hold it as his very own. If one man hires out to another his strength or skill, he does so for the purpose of receiving in return what is necessary for the satisfaction of his needs; he therefore expressly intends to acquire a right full and real, not only to the remuneration, but also to the disposal of such remuneration, just as he pleases. Thus, if he lives sparingly, saves money, and, for greater security, invests his savings in land, the land, in such case, is only his wages under another form; and, consequently, a working man's little estate thus purchased should be as completely at his full disposal as are the wages he receives for his labor. But it is precisely in such power of disposal that ownership obtains, whether the property consist of land or chattels. Socialists, therefore, by endeavoring to transfer the possessions of individuals to the community at large, strike at the interests of every wage-earner, since they would deprive him of the liberty of disposing of his wages, and thereby of all hope and possibility of increasing his resources and of bettering his condition in life.

6. What is of far greater moment, however, is the fact that the remedy they propose is manifestly against justice. For, every man has by nature the right to possess property as his own. This is one of the chief points of distinction between man and the animal creation, for the brute has no power of self-direction, but is governed by two main instincts, which keep his powers on the alert, impel him to develop them in a fitting manner, and stimulate and determine him to action without any power of choice. One of these instincts is self-preservation, the other the propagation of the species. Both can attain their purpose by means of things which lie within range; beyond their verge the brute creation cannot go, for they are moved to action by their senses only, and in the special direction which these suggest. But with man it is wholly different. He possesses, on the one hand, the full perfection of the animal being, and hence enjoys at least as much as the rest of the animal kind, the fruition of things material. But animal nature, however perfect, is far from representing the human being in its completeness, and is in truth but humanity's humble handmaid, made to serve and to obey. It is the mind, or reason, which is the predominant element in us who are human creatures; it is this which renders a human being human, and distinguishes him essentially from the brute. And on this very account -- that man alone among the animal creation is endowed with reason -- it must be within his right to possess things not merely for temporary and momentary use, as other living things do, but to have and to hold them in stable and permanent possession; he must have not only things that perish in the use, but those also which, though they have been reduced into use, continue for further use in after time.

7. This becomes still more clearly evident if man's nature be considered a little more deeply. For man, fathoming by his faculty of reason matters without number, linking the future with the present, and being master of his own acts, guides his ways under the eternal law and the power of God, whose providence governs all things. Wherefore, it is in his power to exercise his choice not only as to matters that regard his present welfare, but also about those which he deems may be for his advantage in time yet to come. Hence, man not only should possess the fruits of the earth, but also the very soil, inasmuch as from the produce of the earth he has to lay by provision for the future. Man's needs do not die out, but forever recur; although satisfied today, they demand fresh supplies for tomorrow. Nature accordingly must have given to man a source that is stable and remaining always with him, from which he might look to draw continual supplies. And this stable condition of things he finds solely in the earth and its fruits. There is no need to bring in the State. Man precedes the State, and possesses, prior to the formation of any State, the right of providing for the substance of his body.

8. The fact that God has given the earth for the use and enjoyment of the whole human race can in no way be a bar to the owning of private property. For God has granted the earth to mankind in general, not in the sense that all without distinction can deal with it as they like, but rather that no part of it was assigned to any one in particular, and that the limits of private possession have been left to be fixed by man's own industry, and by the laws of individual races. Moreover, the earth, even though apportioned among private owners, ceases not thereby to minister to the needs of all, inasmuch as there is not one who does not sustain life from what the land produces. Those who do not possess the soil contribute their labor; hence, it may truly be said that all human subsistence is derived either from labor on one's own land, or from some toil, some calling, which is paid for either in the produce of the land itself, or in that which is exchanged for what the land brings forth.

41 posted on 03/24/2010 10:14:59 AM PDT by Erskine Childers
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To: parkerj
The point of the article is that although the Church objected to federal funding for abortion, it tried to implement healthcare “reform” through a fatally flawed President

So the Catholic Church tried to implement health care reform in the U.S.?

Wow, I guess that gets Obama, the Democrats, and the American voters who elected them off the hook.

It sure doesn't take long before the anti-Catholic reflexes of the right rear up to match those of the left, does it?

Fact: The Catholic bishops opposed the law that was finally passed. Publicly. Repeatedly.

Fact: Judas Stupak today basically said that his vote was none of the Church's business.

Fact: Plenty of Catholics -- elected and not, ordained and not -- opposed this bill. Just as one example: John Boehner, who gave that heroic speech against the bill in the well of the house, is a Roman Catholic. You would never, ever know it from the garbage we read on this site.

Do all of you know what a "scapegoat" is?

44 posted on 03/24/2010 10:18:56 AM PDT by Campion ("President Barack Obama" is an anagram for "An Arab-backed imposter")
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To: parkerj

I wrote a post about Catholic bias to the fellow that used the “whore of Babylon” epithet. I just questioned the article given that the Church opposed the health care bill. I agree with you there are elements within the Church that equate social justice with the Federal government and Statism but that’s not everyone and they can be opposed especially given a cardinal point of Catholic social teaching: subsidiarity which basically teaches that a social problem ought to be dealt with at the lowest level possible on the most personal level possible.


102 posted on 03/24/2010 6:10:20 PM PDT by Rampolla
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