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To: Smokin' Joe
Ruby Ridge was specifically about failure to pay a $200 tax stamp for a sawed of shotgun. Waco was about failure to pay $200 tax stamps for automatic weapons.

I think you need to do more research.

I stand by my statement. What happened in both instances was a tragedy. But we need to understand the (still standing) claim of federal authority in both cases was excise taxes. Manufacture or possession of automatic weapons or destructive devices requires a federal excise tax stamp. Without it you will be convicted of a federal felony. In many states it is legal to own them, given you have jumped throught the government hoops and paid the federal stamp tax. That the federal government saw fit to murder untold people over what by constitutional authority originated as a tax dispute, says all I need to know.

For what its worth, prior to Richard Nixon's war on drugs (when there was still an inkling of respect for our Constitution) the Federal governments sole authority over "illegal" drugs was excise tax stamps. That is was impossible to acquire a stamp for, say, opium or heroin was moot. Possession required a tax stamp. No stamp - meant you have broken the law.

145 posted on 02/23/2010 7:18:05 PM PST by XHogPilot (A lone amateur built the Ark. A large group of professionals built the Titanic.)
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To: XHogPilot
That is was impossible to acquire a stamp for, say, opium or heroin was moot.

North Dakota actually printed tax stamps for marijuana. It was intended to be an additional charge which could be levied, but would have made a neat collector's item. However, to require someone to purchase a tax stamp to posess something illegal is to require that they incriminate themselves--in violation of the Fifth Amendment.

The Fedgov's way out is to require the stamp in advance of the procurement.

As for both Ruby Ridge and Waco, I stand by my statements. I was on days off and watched the testimony in the congressional hearings, and have drawn information from sources not found in the media. The bottom line was that Weaver was entrapped, and then would not become an informant in order to get out of the charge.

That he was freed says enough.

Most of the Branch Davidians did not have that option, and if you will research the trial of the survivors you will find some serious irregualrities there as well.

The testimony in the Congressional hearings was that a delivery driver had noticed grenade casings in a ruptured parcel and that was the excuse the Feds used to obtain a warrant, not an excise tax stamp wiolation in re: automatic weapons.

The novelty items were well known at the time, the Davidians sold them at gun shows, and they were commonly offered in catalogues from a variety of sources.

Continue to believe in whatever fables you will, that does not change the fact that there were numerous abuses of Federal power from the M.O.V.E. firebombing (the incindiary device which was supposed to set the roof on fire and end the 'standoff' penetrated the roof and the resultant fire burned down an entire block) to Weaver, to Waco, to Medina, North Dakota, and others where what could have been relatively simple arrests in broad daylight were turned into violent and deadly attacks by Federal officers on groups of people in which the Federal Government operatives used excessive and inappropriate (deadly) force, and the people responded in self-defense.

Hiding the actions of those Federal agents behind a badge or attacking people over a relatively small sum for a tax stamp does not make those actions acceptable.

Would you kill 76 people over $200.00?

147 posted on 02/23/2010 9:53:49 PM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing.)
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