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This happened yesterday with some of my facebook friends. Can you guess which one is the Olbermann viewer?

Will: “I hope we have once again reminded people that man is not free unless government is limited. There’s a clear cause and effect here that is as neat and predictable as a law of physics: As government expands, liberty contracts.” -Ronald Reagan, farewell speech,1989

Matthew: That’s surprising since government spending almost doubled under Reagan (1.05 Trillion to 1.91 trillion).

Derek: As it has under every president, both Democrat and Republican. The worse were Democrats Kennedy and Johnson, followed distantly by Bush II. So far President Obama is putting them all to shame in his fiscal irresponsibility.

But, the key is to remember that Congress controls the budget. Clinton had the smallest increase in government spending, but he was partnered with Republican majorities in both Congress and the Senate. Bush II spent a lot with a Republican Congress until 2006, when the Democrats took over. Since, spending has been even more out of control!

Will: Good point Derek. Matt, are you really using Reagan’s increase in spending of .86 trillion over 8 years as an example when Obama’s budget for 2011 is $3.83 trillion??? Really?

Matthew: Derek. I am guessing you don’t have numbers to back that up. Let me help you:

Kennedy: 98B - 111B (13%)
Johnson: 111B - 178B (60%)
Reagan: 590B - 1.06T (80%)...
Clinton: 1.4T - 1.8T (28%)
Bush II: 1.8T - 3.3T (83%)
Obama: 3.3T - 3.8T (15%)

Congress controls the budget per the constitution, but almost always it is the president that ultimately drives budget priorities. And your claim that Bush’s spending sky rocketted under the Democratic controlled congress is incorrect. The largest entitlement program ever passed in the history of the US was the 2003 Medicare bill that increased government spending by 700 billion though Bush II presidency. Also, both Iraq and Afghanistan contributed heavily to the rising cost of government, all started before the Democratic congress took power.

Will — I am using percentages so I do not have to compute for inflation. I do think its kind of humorous that you would compare absolute value between Obama and Reagan. Also, Obama’s budget will drop to 3.6 in 2012 and 2013 once the stimulus payments run out. If the healthcare bill actually passes, well that’s deficit neutral so it will add very little to the bottom line (if any). So if he only serves one term like you would like, than his percentage increase would be roughly 10%. Not bad for a socialist president.

Will Bradshaw Healthcare “deficit neutral” haha that’s a good one! How many times is the government under or on target with their budgets for programs??? NEVER! Besides, Obama lies... didn’t you hear Joe Wilson?

Mark: Just because Reagan presided over an increase in spending doesn’t mean the quote above is false.

Warren: Take a look at the numbers instead of the percentages. Percentages are so easily skewed. If i spend 2 dollars tomorrow and one dollar today I could say I doubled my spending(100%):

Kennedy: 98B - 111B (13B)
Johnson: 111B - 178B (67B)
Reagan: 590B-1.06T (470B)...
Clinton: 1.4T - 1.8T (400B)
Bush II: 1.8T - 3.3T (1500B)
Obama: 3.3T - 3.8T (500B)x 8 years = (4000B)

Sorry but 4000B is way worse than anything we have seen yet. Even if you throw inflation in there. You can’t spend your way out of debt.

Brandi: Part of Bush II budget issues was spending alotted by Clinton that couldn’t be changed to issue special program funding. I’m shocked that no explained those hold overs.

Derek: Matthew, even when you are using percentages, you need to adjust your base numbers for inflation, then calculate the percentages. To do otherwise renders the percentages useless, as there is no common reference point.

I do have the numbers, but we’re looking at different metrics. You are looking at total value of spending, while I’m looking at the percent change in spending per capita. This puts total spending in perspective, as it accounts also for population changes through the years. All numbers were adjusted for inflation into 2003 dollars based on the Consumer Price Index and were compiled by Milton Friedman, who won the Nobel Prize in Economics.

Kennedy +3.32%...
Johnson +5.18%
Nixon +2.34%
Ford +1.7%
Carter +2.28%
Reagan +2.33%
Bush I +1.15%
Clinton +.81%
Bush II +3.23% (2001-2003)

Total Average +2.4822%
Democrat average +2.8975%
Republican average +2.15%

So, there’s a mathematical difference, but I don’t really feel like calculating to see if the difference is statistically significant. Facebook is supposed to be fun. Personally, I don’t care. I think the politicians from both sides should be forced to run the government like I’m forced to run my house. No spending unless I have the money. I can’t raise taxes and I’m not “important” enough to reach into your pocket for a bailout if I’m irresponsible.

Brandi: YEAH Derek, well spoken!

Derek: In addition, no matter what the President wants, Congress still controls the budget. When people are apathetic, Congress is apathetic, and whatever the President proposes, Congress passes. But, as we have seen since August, when the people truly care about an issue, they put pressure on their representatives. No matter how badly President Obama wants healthcare right now, he can’t get it passed because the Congressmen want to get reelected and their constituents are telling them they won’t reelect if they vote for the bill. The bill is part of the budget.

The Congressional Budget Office, which is a non-partisan accounting group, has estimated the healthcare bill to cost 1.8 Trillion dollars over the first 10 years. The first three years would technically cost nothing, with all of the costs occurring during years 4-10. Again when this number is adjusted for inflation, using the inflation number supplied by the CBO, the true cost comes in at close to 13 Trillion dollars. I can dig up that study tomorrow, if you’d like. I’m not sure how a cost can be budget neutral.

Matthew: There are so many factually incorrect statements on this posts, I can not even begin to attempt to answer them. Here is a couple just to prove my point:

Your CBO number is incorrect. You are using the CBO’s projection for the original proposed bill which never made it out of either chamber. When you use the bills that were passed by the house (1.2 trillion) and Senate (850 billion) it makes a bit more sense. How much would it cost to do nothing? About the same. Thats why its deficit neutral.

Wrong wrong wrong about Bush’s spending being attributed to Clinton. I mean fundamentally the budget Clinton left is part of Bush’s spending, but the increases have little to do with Clinton. Did you know that the special funding programs installed by Clinton were minuscule compared to those put in place by Bush II. Nice try. Hooray for the 2003 Health Care bill that really screwed over health careWhen was the last time a congress vetoed the President’s budget?

Warren — you have absolutely no credibility to the assumption that Obama will increase his budget by 500B every year. He has already released his budgets through 2012. What do they say? Also, the senate/house will be passing Pay-Go legislation which will be signed into law by Obama. That will really chop the legs out of your assumption.

Will — your personal attacks (calling someone a liar) demonstrates to me that you have run out of facts and that your arguments are weak.

I couldn’t agree more that you can’t spend your way out of debt. You also can’t grow out of our debt. Somewhere down the line there will need to be a tax hike, because Republicans or Democrats do not have the stomach to cut the budget. The tea party is about 25 years too late.

I used percentages so I do not have to adjust for inflation. Sorry, I am a corporate guy. I think in year to year percentage increases. Why would you use a critic of Friedman to back up your claims? I love Friedman. Remember he was a supporter of many of FDRs job growth programs.

I will read the rest of the comments posted to this chain but I am done debating. Obviously I am in an unfriendly environment. Hopefully everybody had a chance to watch this. If you were trying to watch it on Fox, you only caught half because they cut out in the middle:

Will: Matt - when someone says they are going to do something, then they don’t do it, they are a liar. Obama said he would let cspan into the healthcare discussions, then he didn’t. He is a liar! I just call them like I see them.