In the Name of Allah

Korea Times ^ | January 12, 2010 | Gwynne Dyer

[Wuli]

In the late 1980s, when I was in the Eastern Province of Saudi Arabia, a friend suggested that I drive out into the desert near Jubail to see the oldest extant Christian church in the world.

And there it was, surrounded by a chain-link fence to keep casual visitors and foreign archaeologists out. Experts who saw the site before it was closed said that the church was built by Nestorian Christians, and was probably used from the 4th to the 9th century.

Its existence embarrassed the Saudi government, which prefers to believe that Arabia went straight from paganism to Islam.

But it confirmed the assumption of most historians that Christianity was flourishing on the Arabian Peninsula in the centuries before the rise of Islam. So what did these Arabic-speaking Christians call God? Allah, of course.

I mention this because recently the Malaysian High Court........

[Wuli]

Interesting bit about an ancient Christian church in Arabia.

[SatinDoll]

I knew that ‘the Old City’, Medina, had been founded by Hebrews who had turned south rather than travel north with Moses after leaving Egypt. I wasn’t aware that there had been Christian churches in an eastern Arabian province!

[Publius6961]

Would anyone have any idea of the geographic coordinates?

"out into the desert near Jubail" covers a lot of territory.

I know not everyone wants to be map savvy, but would it hurt to learn the cardinal directions? I mean, C'mon!

[Ready4Freddy]

One church proves that “Christianity was flourishing on the Arabian Peninsula in the centuries before the rise of Islam.”?

[Wuli]

I found a website for the author:

http://www.gwynnedyer.com/

So, I wrote him an Email and asked if had a more precise location for the old church. We’ll see what answer we get.

If we get an answer, I’ll add it to this thread.

[Fred Nerks]

Nestorian church of Jubail 400 AD

MORE IMAGES.SOURCE

[Wuli]

I have read in a few books, about an even earlier exodus from Jerusalem, of Christians of the 1st generation, among those around Yeshua’s brother Yacob -

[that’s James - James the leader of the Church in Jerusalem, founded immediately after Yeshua’s death and led by James; - James, who Saul/Paul went back to Jerusalem to meet, seeking James approval of his mission among the Gentiles]

- that after James was assassinated, some from the Jerusalem Church left Jerusalem, for good, and for a time resided in Pella, which was East of the Jordan River.

On the map at the link provided here below, Pella is just above the letter E, in “TETRARCHY” in the diagonal label “TETRARCHY OF HEROD ANTIPAS”. I believe Pella would be west of the location the author gave for the old Church he saw in Arabia.

http://www.bible-history.com/geography/ancient-israel/pella.html

One of those references I read, years ago, said that the descendants of that group survived and their descendants exist today, and claim their lineage from that exodus before the Temple was destroyed; and claim to have never mixed, from the beginning, with the Churches that evolved in Anatolia, Greece and Rome and Egypt. I even met a woman whose Mother claimed (to her) to be among the current descendants of that group. Unlike all other Christian groups they take literally a faithful obedience to Yeshua’s rejection of Satan’s offer of the “Keys to all the kingdoms of the Earth”, and to be in the world but not of the world, and have shunned outside worldly recognition during their entire existence. What their “messianic” ideas are I never learned, nor what “gospels” they follow.

[HiTech RedNeck]

Both Judaism and Christianity were widely practiced. It is part of the context of the genesis of Islam. Mad Mo had to interface with both groups and his story swings back and forth as he does.

[HiTech RedNeck]

Unlike all other Christian groups they take literally a faithful obedience to Yeshua’s rejection of Satan’s offer of the “Keys to all the kingdoms of the Earth”, and to be in the world but not of the world, and have shunned outside worldly recognition during their entire existence. What their “messianic” ideas are I never learned, nor what “gospels” they follow.

Keeping a low profile would certainly be at odds with spreading a gospel which is why it isn't seen much. Who knows, there might be other groups that did the same thing and are even MORE successful at it (i.e. we haven't heard of them at all). Even the Amish do not put themselves at odds with the larger Christian church because this would defeat the gospel purpose.

[sailor4321]

The church he refers to is on the edge of the old town of Jubail, not way out in the desert.

[Blue_Ridge_Mtn_Geek]

[One church proves that “Christianity was flourishing on the Arabian Peninsula in the centuries before the rise of Islam.”? ]

This is not too surprising, given that the Christian community had a six century headstart on Islam, and that Muhammed’s first wife was a Nestorian Christian. One may question the term “flourishing” given the scanty evidence, and ambiguity of the term, but it was certainly present in some strength over a period of centuries, and an influence during the life of Muhammed.

http://www.answering-islam.org/Books/Jeffery/southarabia.htm
http://www.adias-uae.com/publications/hellyer01b.pdf
http://www.al-islam.org/masoom/bios/khadija.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Christians

[Wuli]

I was not “promoting” their religious point of view; simply stating it as it was told to me.

[Don W]

I both envy you for your fortunate exposure to a true believer, and pity you for your lack of recognition!

Would only that someone more worthy been there!

[Huntress]

bump for later reading

[Wuli]

I was not “exposed to a true believer” as you say.

The woman I knew was the daughter of someone = her mother - and it was her mother who claimed to be a member of a group claiming descent from those who went to Pella after James was assassinated.

The woman I met (actually worked with for a while) said she had been raised, religiously, in that group her mother belonged to.

But she, my co-worker, was herself, as an adult, not a practicing member of that group. Her and her husband were in the Anglican Church and at the time her husband was getting his theological degree here at an Anglican seminary.

It seemed she and her mother were no longer close.

That came out when I asked if I could meet her, because her mother’s story was interesting to me, and she said she hadn’t seen her in years. I sensed there was something besides miles that had put some distance between them, and I didn’t press her on it.

It was after that that I found the same story of the exodus to Pella in some books I read. Made me even more curious to find her mother; but by then, and since then, have even lost track of her, the woman I worked with.