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To: Vanders9; Petronski; Wpin; neverdem; americanophile; wagglebee; sionnsar; stfassisi; ...
does this “christmas was originally a pagan festival” theory actually hold any water?

It does, because it's historical fact (read a little bit about Emperor Constantine and how he shaped christianity and paganism into his vision of a religion). No one is saying that there isn't also historical fact to validate the bible (except atheists) because there IS historical fact to validate the bible. But if one accepts the history of the bible (and the historical fact that validates it) then one cannot also then ignore other historical fact as if it is then invalidated by the bible. That is revisionism.
It's amazing that there would be lauded conservatives who on one hand will complain that progressive liberals & democrats love to ignore aspects of US history and chose to revise US history to their ends.....yet then these same conservatives turn around and chose to accept revisionist history when it comes to other things. It is quite hypocritical.
Just because there are aspects to a religion's past that may make one uncomfortable doesn't mean those things need to be automatically accepted and defended even if it means revising history.
57 posted on 12/24/2009 2:30:28 PM PST by brent13a (You're a Great American! NO you're a Great American! NO NO NO YOU'RE a Great American! Nooo.....WTF?)
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To: brent13a
...read a little bit about Emperor Constantine and how he shaped christianity and paganism into his vision of a religion...

Or read something TRUE about St. Constantine the Great.

58 posted on 12/24/2009 4:21:39 PM PST by Petronski (In Germany they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist...)
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To: brent13a

If there was a pagan celebration on the 25th of December...I have not seen actual evidence of this anywhere...I know that there is a Pagan winter solstice celebration, but those ended before the 25th, if there was one though...that has absolutely nothing with the Celebration of Jesus’ birth.

Oftentimes, lay people become confused by coincidence rather than correlation. There is a difference and that difference is huge. Christianity does not come from paganism or any other religion other than sharing the old testament which includes the Jewish and Muslim. The Jews for the most part believe Jesus was a man, the Muslims understand that Jesus was a Prophet.

The bible is from God, and Jesus is from God, it is that simple. Nothing more nothing less.

Merry Christmas...btw, Santa Clause is not where Jesus comes from.


59 posted on 12/24/2009 4:48:36 PM PST by Wpin (I do not regret my admiration for W)
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To: brent13a

Agreed...IF it is a historical fact. The author is challenging that - and there’s nothing wrong with that, as long as he can justify his viewpoints. I don’t personally buy 100% of what he says, but I do know that although this idea that Christmas was originally a pagan festival is universally accepted now, I’ve never seen it critically examined. It is not hypocritical to challenge “facts” that you think are wrong...it only becomes hypocritical when you attempt to deny facts that you know, deep down, are actually right.

Traditions are not immutable. Things change. In fact, the most enduring myths, legends and meta narratives are constantly being adapted, to suit the needs of each generation. I believe that the roots of Christmas are quite simply a celebration of the birth of Jesus. However, I would not deny that other elements have become “tacked on” to the event, and some of those are decidedly pagan, or at least pre-Christian. All this holly and ivy stuff - in spite of the carol that is almost certainly based on pagan ceremonies of about the same time of year that have become tangled up in Christmas. Over time the “add-ons” have become more important than the actual event to most people.


115 posted on 12/27/2009 2:05:30 AM PST by Vanders9
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