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To: MissouriConservative
thank the idiots who gave us the 17th amendment for this

Indeed sir! An often overlooked amendment that is likely to destroy the Republic.
41 posted on 12/22/2009 7:11:54 PM PST by F. dAnconia (We say: "It is, therefore, I want it. They say: "I want it, therefore it is")
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To: F. dAnconia

“An often overlooked amendment that is likely to destroy the Republic.”

Very much so. It took away the block that states could put on the federal government. It gave the people TWO houses and the states lost any check it had on fed expansion.

Never have seen a movement to repeal that cursed amendment but one needs to be started...heck...might even start it here on FR myself...who knows?


51 posted on 12/22/2009 7:38:48 PM PST by MissouriConservative (Every election is a sort of advance auction sale of stolen goods. - H. L Mencken)
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To: F. dAnconia; MissouriConservative
I've never bought the argument that the mode of election of Senators makes any significant difference. Consider the following, from Antifederalist 39, on that very subject. Those who lived in a time of actual state sovereignty, and who placed high value upon it, were not impressed by the original mode of election. For your consideration, coming from someone who lived under an actual confederacy:

The State legislatures do not choose senators by legislative or sovereign authority, but by a power of ministerial agency as mere electors or boards of appointment. They have no power to direct the senators how or what duties they shall perform; they have neither power to censure the senators, nor to supersede them for misconduct. It is not the power of choosing to office merely that designates sovereignty, or else corporations who appoint their own officers and make their own by-laws, or the heads of department who choose the officers under them, such as commanders of armies, etc., may be called sovereigns, because they can name men to office whom they cannot dismiss therefrom. The exercise of sovereignty does not consist in choosing masters, such as the senators would be, who, when chosen, would be beyond control, but in the power of dismissing, impeaching, or the like, those to whom authority is delegated. The power of instructing or superseding of delegates to Congress under the existing confederation has never been complained of, although the necessary rotation of members of Congress has often been censured for restraining the state sovereignties too much in the objects of their choice. As well may the electors who are to vote for the president under the new constitution, be said to be vested with the sovereignty, as the State legislatures in the act of choosing senators. The senators are not even dependent on the States for their wages, but in conjunction with the federal representatives establish their own wages. The senators do not vote by States, but as individuals. The representatives also vote as individuals, representing people in a consolidated or national government; they judge upon their own elections, and, with the Senate, have the power of regulating elections in time, place and manner, which is in other words to say, that they have the power of elections absolutely vested in them.

The State legislatures do not choose senators by legislative or sovereign authority, but by a power of ministerial agency as mere electors or boards of appointment. They have no power to direct the senators how or what duties they shall perform; they have neither power to censure the senators, nor to supersede them for misconduct. It is not the power of choosing to office merely that designates sovereignty, or else corporations who appoint their own officers and make their own by-laws, or the heads of department who choose the officers under them, such as commanders of armies, etc., may be called sovereigns, because they can name men to office whom they cannot dismiss therefrom. The exercise of sovereignty does not consist in choosing masters, such as the senators would be, who, when chosen, would be beyond control, but in the power of dismissing, impeaching, or the like, those to whom authority is delegated. The power of instructing or superseding of delegates to Congress under the existing confederation has never been complained of, although the necessary rotation of members of Congress has often been censured for restraining the state sovereignties too much in the objects of their choice. As well may the electors who are to vote for the president under the new constitution, be said to be vested with the sovereignty, as the State legislatures in the act of choosing senators. The senators are not even dependent on the States for their wages, but in conjunction with the federal representatives establish their own wages. The senators do not vote by States, but as individuals. The representatives also vote as individuals, representing people in a consolidated or national government; they judge upon their own elections, and, with the Senate, have the power of regulating elections in time, place and manner, which is in other words to say, that they have the power of elections absolutely vested in them.


54 posted on 12/22/2009 7:47:15 PM PST by Huck (The Constitution is an outrageous insult to the men who fought the Revolution." -Patrick Henry)
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