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To: Titus-Maximus; xcamel; steelyourfaith; FormerACLUmember; 1776 Reborn; HighWheeler; Star Traveler; ..
What a mess this has all become!

This video comes from the "watts up with that" story.

Hockey stick observed in NOAA ice core data

Which is excerpting from:

Where the blogger says:

Except that, the actual NOAA dataset definition clearly says:

Which is a huge amount of posting about going back to a very simple and obvious observation: the data here are indeed merely another proxy model for past temperature estimates, based on various assumptions and ice composition models, and are obviously "massaged" in multiple ways in order to get to a dataset which has Degrees C vs x-thousand years ago.

I mean, none of this detracts from the games played by Mann and the CRU from their end, but can we at least refrain from doing the same oversimplification that Monckton berates the Greenpeace Warmists for doing? What this blog post is, as striking and clear as it seems, is an "appeal to authority" to the "Foresight Institute" based on data, massaged and derived from one particular set of raw data in one geographic location, using several specific numerical filters and smoothing and scaling.

And this dataset stops "0.0951409" thousand years ago (beginning of the 20th century). And part of what the IPCC "tricks" involved extrpolating conclusions by grafting on current temperatures to these proxy temperatures----the same type thing we're doing here in the reverse!

The scaling from ice properties of trapped gas concentration etc etc is an entire developing discipline of earth science. We can obviously say that the Medieval Warm Period was not caused by factories, but we also shouldn't jump on the bandwagon of assigning tenths of a degree C to the difference between vineyards in England and the cold front in Iowa next week.

I'm a total AGW skeptic, heretic. But I see us rapidly tilting over to the gorezaloonies methods and madness if we're not careful here and place the same skepticism on reports that seem to support our instincts as well as those that oppose.

21 posted on 12/13/2009 8:54:48 AM PST by sam_paine (X .................................)
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To: sam_paine

That is why I think the video I posted is good use to fight GW.

Because whether you dealing with a very precise person who pulls out charts, graphs, whatever, to prove his case whether for or against GW; the video shows how ridiculous the conclusions derived from bad data are.

It also demonstrate show often the headline “Scientists have discovered”, “scientists say”, “science shows” has been misused to promote something that is not science at all.

As the Marxists themselves say, the most potent weapon is ridicule.


23 posted on 12/13/2009 9:16:51 AM PST by old curmudgeon
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To: sam_paine
You were saying ...

I'm a total AGW skeptic, heretic. But I see us rapidly tilting over to the gorezaloonies methods and madness if we're not careful here and place the same skepticism on reports that seem to support our instincts as well as those that oppose.

You'll notice that Monckton says that he does believe in "Global Warming". He says he does not dispute that the climate is warming up. At least that's what he makes sure that his audience knows. He is not in disagreement with those who say there is Global Warming.

What he is disagreeing with is that it is "Anthropogenic Global Warming" -- or -- man-caused, that is.

So, he says the earth's climate is definitely warming up, but mankind is not the cause of it.

I thought that people should be aware of that point...

25 posted on 12/13/2009 9:17:59 AM PST by Star Traveler (The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is a Zionist and Jerusalem is the apple of His eye.)
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To: sam_paine
Bring on global warming.... The only thing more preposterous than Climategate itself are the dire predictions that go along with it. Hogwash and double hogwash!
37 posted on 12/13/2009 10:03:07 AM PST by 1776 Reborn
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