Posted on 12/10/2009 1:32:07 PM PST by anymouse
An undercover cop chased a Times Square scam artist through sidewalks crowded with holiday shoppers and tourists Thursday, exchanged gunfire with the suspect and killed him near a landmark hotel, police said. (snip)
When the officer approached, the man took off running the streets and through the Marriott Marquis hotel's passenger drop-off area, Browne said. The sergeant pursued, and the man turned and fired with a Mac-10 machine pistol that held 30 rounds; he got off two shots before it jammed, Browne said. The officer returned fire, killing the suspect, Browne said. It's not clear how many shots he fired. (snip)
The slain man was not immediately identified. Officers suspected him and another man were working a scam in which they would approach tourists, ask them their names, then write their names on the CDs and demand payment of $10.
The 25-year-old suspect had been wanted for assault in the Bronx, but the officer approached him because he was recognized as an aggressive panhandler, authorities said. There were 27 live rounds left in his gun, authorities said.
(Excerpt) Read more at guardian.co.uk ...
Gosh, that punk had a bad day
Don't you think that after the first shot people were ducking and taking cover? Or, in your scenario they were still walking around as if nothing was going on?
>> motoring down fifth avenue around 55th st or so ... there must be the scent of rural guy
A likely combination.
I wouldn’t mind tax credits for on the spot charitable contributions. The deductions don’t reflect the significance of the charity.
I do what I can, but don’t care for the hostility when I’m out of pocket.
Thank God for Bloomburg and his Gun Control scheme!/s
nah, but I wouldnt put it past em to try it...
Especially if you hold them laid over on their side -- ghetto style...
Once the guy starts shooting in the crowd it becomes a judgement call.
Odds are that many of them didn’t even know it was happening given the location and the time of year.
>>>Mac-10’s jam a lot fortunately. This is the kind of weapon a wannabe would use.
Daddy Would Have Got Us Uzis
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lnjiy85ExcA
Do you know the scene? Have you ever been there? I have. Does your training suggest discharging your weapon 4 times at a suspect with a jammed gun in what is esentially a concrete tunnel filled with bystanders?
In the end, the tapes will tell the tale. Perhaps the officer DID have a clear shot. More power to him - I'm not crying over some scum getting his due. But I know the scene very well, and there is virtually no place at the scene where he was shot where a bystander could not walk from being invisible to the officer to being in the line of fire in a split second. Does your training teach you to shoot in a situation where you cannot be reasonably sure a bystander won't walk into the backgroud between the time you pull the trigger and the bullet strikes? Does your training teach you to shoot in a situation where any miss is likely to bounce around a bit through a concrete tunnel filled with civilians?
I hope the tapes show that I am all wet and if this LEO fired in that area in a manner that was safe he deserves a commendation. It would be a feat of incredible skill. But knowing the area (as I suspect you do not) he would have had to be pretty damn good and very lucky.
That's right - and since there are survellience tapes we'll see if it was a good judgement (in which case, give that LEO a star!). If it was a bad judgement the survelliance footage will be lost/destroyed/impounded or otherwise kept from the public eye.
I do not know the scene. Never been there. My training absolutely suggests discharging my weapon until the threat is ended. The officer had just been shot at and I doubt he knew the suspect’s gun was jammed. The threat was still very real. The tapes will tell the tale as you suggest. The cop apparently did an admirable job under the most stressful of situations. Have you ever had police training? Formal firearms training? Ever been shot at? I can answer yes to all three. I wasn’t there and neither were you. We get paid to make split second decisions that several times in a career might be life or death. This cop was confronted with just such as situation and as you said, he got lucky and just maybe, he is very good as well...
I don’t know what the videos will show that is not already given as fact in the circumstances or safe to assume because of the givens.
A good friend of mine was working as a police officer in the Boynton Mall in Florida when the Christmas shooting happened three years ago. He took a knee and told me that he had one of the suspects in his sights as the man ran straight at him.
No shot, due to the crowd. This man was a Ranger during Desert Storm. The various gangstas were also dodging and using the crowd for cover as they tried to run from the cops. In that case, the only person killed was one of the gang members, the person whose death started the whole thing. So in hindsight it’s a good thing the cops didn’t shoot. The New York City Police mentality is a bit different. In south Florida, these were a couple of idiots with pistols.
In New York, this was a machine gun, as noted in the original headlines. That officer may never have even seen a Mac outside of an instructor holding one at a lecture. He may well have been told, “machine gun, machine gun, machine gun, machine gun.” This is the city that ran the news stories featuring New Jersey Governor Florio and the machine gun videos they used to promote his semi auto ban.
Surveillance videos would have to show some incredible mistakes for me to find fault with the cop in this case.
Yeah, how insightful you are! The cop should have just stood there and let the perp shoot him full of holes and possibly some civilians. How dare the cop return fire on some criminal shooting at him. Good analysis on your part!(BTW, this is sarcasm in case you didn't get it)
That’s exactly what happened, TXinMA! The master gangsta was holding the gun sidewise and a spent cartridge that would normally have been ejected was stuck in the slide, jamming it. Had the doofus understood how his pistol worked, he would have emptied a 32-round clip.
So no, he didn’t elegantly slice off a two-round burst.
There’s no way the cop could know the weapon was disabled. He had to deal with the danger of 32 live rounds. All his shots hit center mass. Trying for a nonfatal wounding shot would have increased the danger of a shot going wide.
Of course, the perp-vic’s mom reports that he’s a good lad who studied the Bible with her and loved his music. Apparently his five previous arrests and open warrant for assault were just pesky bad luck.
And those rap videos on his web site promising to drop a cop? Artistic license, folks. Hyperbole. Free speech.
As I was driving home, I got to thinking: "For spending a week reloading ammo, and hours on Saturday busting my thumb, loading magazines, that few minutes of 'fun' Sunday afternoon definitely wasn't worth the effort -- much less the expense.."
And, yes, that Mac10's anemic ejection caused it to "stovepipe" when held on its side, too...
But he can still vote.
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