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To: Spike Knotts
You can prove evolution is a lie in one sentence. I won’t stick to just one sentence, but you could if you weren’t given to talking too much.

It is a random process, right?

Wrong. Mutation is random, selection is non-random.

So where are all of evolution’s failures(that’s the one sentence, btw)? Show me the fossil of just one “impossible creature.” There should be an entire branch of science dedicated to them. For every random success...there should be a billion, a trillion, a gajillion failures.

Any organism, because it is in constant competition with others for scarce environment resources, mating opportunities, etc, will only be able to depart a small distance from a well adapted state before it is unable to successfully contribute its genes to future populations (or until it just dies directly). There's no opportunity to get anywhere near an advanced stage of maladaptation, i.e. being an “impossible creature.”

I mean, what are you even thinking here? Sorry to be blunt, but this is one of the dumbest antievolution arguments I've ever read. The whole idea of Darwinian evolution, after noting that organisms vary, is that survival and reproductive success depends on how well the particular mix of variations an organism possesses adapts it to these purposes.

But you're suggesting exactly the opposite: that evolution instead requires organisms to survive, successfully reproduce (and therefore be available to be preserved as fossils) even if, or without regard to whether, they are monstrously maladapted?! Where do you get this bizarre notion?

70 posted on 12/02/2009 1:07:00 AM PST by Stultis (Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia; Democrats always opposed waterboarding as torture)
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To: Stultis; Spike Knotts
Wrong. Mutation is random, selection is non-random.

The pressures exerted on the organism are what then? Planned? Designed? Controlled?

The whole idea of Darwinian evolution, after noting that organisms vary, is that survival and reproductive success depends on how well the particular mix of variations an organism possesses adapts it to these purposes.

And explain how that process is not due to random influences.

But you're suggesting exactly the opposite: that evolution instead requires organisms to survive, successfully reproduce (and therefore be available to be preserved as fossils) even if, or without regard to whether, they are monstrously maladapted?!

It doesn't read that way, not that there should be lots of examples of a mutation that doesn't work because they were maladapted. But there appear to be no examples of failed mutations, monstrosities, as it were, in the fossil record. Could you explain how all the fossils that are found are found in their complete and fully functional form?

77 posted on 12/02/2009 5:11:12 AM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Stultis

Can you explain how a “random” process doesn’t produce at least as many failures as successes? And that would be if the odds were 50/50. I’d say the odds of “randomly” developing a biological electric motor is pretty slim, wouldn’t you?

Let’s say mutation A is a viable mutation and is represented by heads.

Mutation B is a non-viable mutation and is represented by tails.

Is it then your contention that “evolution” always comes up heads?

Let’s say that you could fit enough scrabble game pieces into your hand to represent “a mutation,” in code.

Is it your contention that every time you threw these pieces against the wall, they would produce a viable mutation, such as an electric motor, an airfoil, or visual processing devices with far more horsepower than even the best cameras we can currently produce?

Where are the fossils of the failures? Produce one. Or please explain how “evolution” never regresses. Doesn’t science say that all of creation is trending towards chaos? How exactly then is our little planet trending towards order?

I never said I expected anything to survive. In fact, I said the opposite. But feel free to believe in your miraculous unknown force that never fails, only succeeds. If only we could tap into it so that we could make it our leader.

Where do you get the bizarre notion that “random” means always succeeding?

How did “evolution” discover, mathematically, the concept and application of a straight line? How about a parabolic curve? How many times did “evolution” cause a plant to grow in a completely erratic fashion, because it hadn’t yet discovered the engineering concept of a straight line? Oh, a straight line is nothing, you say? Then lets see you produce one...from nothing, with no knowledge. Lets see you build a biological machine capable of using math during its growth.

Ignoring all that...what came first? The hardware or the software?

Did “evolution” create the genome before the first life? Or did life spring into existence without the benefit of an operating system? If so...how did it pass its non-existent genes on? While we’re on that...why isn’t the genome itself evolving? Why does all life use the same basic operating system that it has for billions of years? Can you point out DNA version 2.1? No? Well, that truly is a miraculous, mysterious force.

Pick wisely, it has to be one or the other.


86 posted on 12/02/2009 7:20:07 AM PST by Spike Knotts
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