Jesus Christ's 'death certificate' found on Turin Shroud

The Telegraph ^ | 11/20/2009 | Nick Squires in Rome

[Lily4Jesus]

What death certificate? Jesus is not dead.

[HospiceNurse]

The author has never studied the shroud directly, only old photographs. It is impossible for her to make this claim."It's all the result of imagination and computer software."

[Tainan]

Wash in cold water
tumble dry med-low heat
warm iron only

[bunkerhill7]

Naaww we gotta call in CSI on this one

[Freedom'sWorthIt]

mark bump

[Jim from C-Town]

“The Telegraph” is not held to be at the apex of journalistic accuracy. “

How far down the list? Newsweek far or New York Times. I mean Newsweek is a total of seven pages four dedicated to Viagra adds and three to the retarded yammering of Evan Thomas. The NYT has more space dedicated to corrections than to actual hard core news reporting. So I ask again, How far down the list is ‘The Telegraph’?

[Auntie Dem]

Her story about the body going to a mortuary is in opposition to Scripture.

Actually, scripture supports her story. Joseph had to go to Pilate and beg for the body. That means the Romans had possession of His body and controlled access to it. This indicates some sort of system was in place, and there could have been records maintained. Whether this scholar has found legitimate evidence of these records is another thing.

[Jim from C-Town]

I agree, I was under the assumption that in most instances the Romans had the bodies of the crucified remain on the cross and allowed them to rot. This added to the terror and threat of going against Rome.

I believed that Joseph of Aramethia used his influence as a wealthy person to persuade the Roman authorities to release the body of Jesus to him. I could be wrong, I am by no means a biblical scholar.

[skr]

Good point about leaving them on the crosses, but in the case of Jewish victims, they apparently killed them before sundown so that Jewish law could be followed. I think you’re right about the wealthy Joseph of Arimathea who was also a member of the Sanhedrin. The Romans probably cooperated with some of the Jewish traditions and Jewish leaders (certainly Pilate was influenced greatly at Jesus’ “trial”) in order to keep the peace.

[bogusname]

The Bible says that Christ was beaten so badly that His face no longer looked human. The face on the shroud appears to be in fairly good shape. That is not the face of our Lord. Christ was also whipped so badly that his back was torn to shreds. Then of course after the crown of thorns was placed on His head he was struck repeatedly with a rod that ripped his scalp apart. There is no need to run tests on the shroud. It never touched the suffering messiah.

[Blogger]

No. Reread the passage, cause I did. In Luke’s account, he takes the body down. The Romans had control of the body, and Joseph asked permission to bury it, but he takes it down off of the cross and the disciples wrap it and treat it. The Romans would have likely taken a cross executee and treated them like any other criminal - throwing them in a potter’s field.

[American Constitutionalist]

" A cabal of fake scientists determined to find what they wanted to find. "
It seems herein that there is a agenda driven pattern here as also in the case of the fraud and hoax that Global Warming is.
One can guess that these same scientist would question new evidence of any new artifacts, writings, or archeology of that which would support the Bible.

[American Constitutionalist]

Would be such a great leap of faith that the Romans when putting a sign ? posting ? or even a piece of canvas, or a metallic imprint of those words and nailed it on the cross above his head also demanded that it also be placed inside the cloth when he was buried ?
If it was some kind of cloth, would is not be possible that the ink ? paint ? die would have had lead in it ? or some kind of metal in it and what ever made the image of Jesus on the shroud also had a effect on those metals ? some kind of X-Ray process that even modern day science can not explain ?

[American Constitutionalist]

Yes, it could have been, or the shroud could have been placed on him during the burial process that the Jewish tradition requires with spices.

[FTJM]

The Romans acted stupidly.

[American Constitutionalist]

Even though I don't share the same opinion about the shroud as you do, I do share the same opinion as far as U.F.O.s go.
Even if it was a fake, why go through all the minute details to produce it ? to what ends or motive would the person or person's would have to do this ? was it political ? a religious statement ? why ? what for ? what out come would it prove to produce a fake ? it does not nor will it ever have any effect on those Christians who believe of the Christian faith whether it's real or fake.

[American Constitutionalist]

Who says that they have not revealed all that they have researched and studied about the Shroud ?
The God of Israel only knows what our government has never revealed to the public of their state secrets.

[American Constitutionalist]

I think in some scripture or even some of Jesus’s own words that no matter how many miracles or signs that God shows us that some will not believe.

[American Constitutionalist]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,575949,00.html

[American Constitutionalist]

Matthew chapter 27 verses 57-60..

57. When the even was come, there came a rich man of Arimathaea, named Joseph, who also himself was Jesus' disciple:

58. He went to Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. Then Pilate commanded the body to be delivered.

59. And when Joseph had taken the body, he wrapped it in a clean linen cloth,

60. And laid it in his own new tomb, which he had hewn out in the rock: and he rolled a great stone to the door of the sepulchre, and departed.


Jesus died at the 9th hour ( 3 PM ) and let's suppose it's early April, so, the sun would have gone down around 5:30 or 6:00, 7:00 PM maybe ?
They had 3 to 4 hours to get him in the tomb.
In the account in Luke, this all didn't happen in 30 minutes or so, simultaneously, Besides, Joseph went to Pilate, and Pilate commanded that the body be brought to Joseph according Matthews account.
Matthew was or most likely gotten first hand accounts from John and other and the other disciples, not Luke.
In both Luke's and Mark's accounts, it says that Joseph took down the body, but, in Matthew's it says Pilate commanded that the body be brought to Joseph, and in John's it says that Joseph asked for permission of Pilate, and Joseph came and took the body away.
Got to remember, even though Luke was a physician, John had first hand accounts and were eye witnesses.
John was most likely the only disciple to have stayed with Jesus ( and Jesus's mother, her sister, Mary, the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene ) during the whole ordeal ( 5 witnesses who stayed there ) so they would have had the most accurate account of what happen.
It's seems in reading in John 19, that, there might have been a time period between the time Jesus died, the people left, and then, when the Jews came to Pilate because the day was the day of preparation and the bodies ( all 3 of them ) were not to be left on the Sabbath.
So the Jews asked that their legs be broken so they can take them down and bury them before sundown.
We can suppose that Joseph also knew this and was also among them, do you have account or evidence that Joseph was there at the cross with Jesus, John, and the 4 women ? ....
In John's account, Joseph was a secret disciple of Jesus for out of fear of the Jews, so I don't think Joseph was there at the cross with Jesus.
We don't know how much time passed when Jesus died, and when the crowds left, and when the Jews and Joseph came to Pilate, and when the solders and Joseph came back to the cross to break their legs.
Even if Joseph actually took Jesus down, I do not believe he had the strength to lift a 160 body from 10 feet up ,, do you ? he had help, and most likely, the Roman soldiers helped him, or even John or other people
Can we assume that they immediately took his body right to the tomb ? or did they take him to a place to prepare his body and wrap him in the cloth and shroud ?
Was Joseph with the body all that time ? every minute or second ? ... could the Romans's have given him some kind of paper, cloth, tag to ID the body so no one would mistake the body and take it away ?
Did they carry the body on their backs ? by hand ? or in some kind of cart ?