Save yourself some trouble. I am quite familiar with Christian theologoy, all it’s flavors. There is a reason where there are so many flavors, of course.
My question was a light way of asking if you are a universalist, in the old sense. If Christ really died for all the sins of the world, and anyone still goes to hell, payment for some sins is being collected twice. Is that just?
If you are not a universalist, then you really don’t believe in “free” salvation, because an individual has to do something to be save, and save from what?
Ah, now it get’s interesting. Turns out people are “born sinful.” What does that mean—either they are already sinners in Adam (as some hold) or they have a sinful nature inhereted from Adam, which causes them to sin. In either case they are condemned to eternal torment for that sin unless they are saved, right?
And that torment is described as, “payment for sin.” Please explain how pain and torment are a “payment for sin,” and who exactly is collecting that payment, and why they enjoy it so much that they are willing to accept it as payment.
About the only thing I’m certain came out of Christianity are the concepts of revenge and retributive justice.
(That’s a bit of exaggeration. I have frequently defended Christianity. For example:
http://theautonomist.com/aaphp/articles/article80.php )
Hank
Based on the statements following it doesn't seem like this is true.
If you are not a universalist, then you really don’t believe in “free” salvation, because an individual has to do something to be save, and save from what?
First, a free gift must be accepted. Second, we must be saved from the inevitable spiritual consequences of our lives on Earth.
Please explain how pain and torment are a “payment for sin,” and who exactly is collecting that payment, and why they enjoy it so much that they are willing to accept it as payment.
Hell is the result of separation from God. It is not an active torment anymore than the pain of deciding to live in space without a spacesuit would be the active torment of Earth. God doesn't want to torment you. And God doesn't owe you salvation from a state that you actively seek (distance from God).