OK. I know this game well and it goes like this: Not all Nazis believed in employing mass murder in pursuit of racial purity. Not all Communists believe in the use of murder and "reeducation" in pursuit of socialist paradise. So on and so forth.
Instead of using this evasive, apologetic device, why not examine the components of Islam that have fueled -- nearly unabated -- aggression, genocide, mayhem and oppression for 1400 years?
I too, know many Muslims who abhor the violent, supremacist actions of some of their co-religionists. In fact, my dearest friend; a man I have trusted my life to on several occasions, is a devout, Shia Muslim. That doesn't change the obvious fact that there is something about Islam that today compels a broad swath of its adherents to murder non-Muslims, and mostly other Muslims, in the name of God.
Here's a little something to chew on: If I were to stand on a corner in Times Square and make boisterous ant-Jewish or anti-Christian remarks the worst that would happen to me would be some nasty looks or insults. The best that would happen would be an invitation to a seat at the Oscars. I currently live and work in a "moderate" Arab Muslim country. Sure, human slavery is rampant here, the rape of expat housemaids by indigenous Arabs is also a serious problem as is the mistreatment and overall subjugation of non-Arabs -- both Muslim and non-Muslim, but the streets are calm and the place is generally safe for most people, including Westerners and those who practice religions other than Islam. However, if I were to walk outside of my apartment and begin making statements against Islam, I would likely be beaten to death within a very short time.
What does that tell you?
Let the relativist spin begin! Lol!
And if you were telling me that we should deport, persecute, or even annihilate every former member of the Nazi party or every Communist, regardless of whether they'd actually hurt anyone or did anything wrong, then it would be a legitimate point there, too.
I'm not telling you not to criticize or oppose Islam or the Koran. Go for it. And any Muslim living here should be able to peacefully abide such criticism. If they can't and threaten you with harm, then by all means put them in jail or send them to their home country.
Instead of using this evasive, apologetic device, why not examine the components of Islam that have fueled -- nearly unabated -- aggression, genocide, mayhem and oppression for 1400 years?
Because such arguments are as weak as the arguments that seek to examine the components of Christianity or Western civilization that have fueled plenty of nasty historical events, as well. At the end of the day, the Bible only tells you so much about what real Christians and Jews actually believe, just as the writings of Islam (Koran, Sunnah, and Hadith) only tell you so much about what real Muslims believe. There are plenty of critics of Christianity, Judaism, and even religion as a whole that will happily make the same sort of argument that the Bible is rotten to the core, too, and turns people bad. I'm not saying that there isn't nasty stuff in the Koran but that matters when we're talking about Wahhabists (who even enhance the bad stuff in their translations) but no so much if we're talking about Sufis. I'm not asking people to hug a Wahabbist or give the nasty stuff in the Koran a pass. I'm asking people to understand that not all Muslims are Wahabbists and not all Muslims abide by the nasty stuff in the Koran.
When talking theology, I have no problem with you calling the entire Koran and all of Islam rubbish. But when the discussion terms to persecution, deportations, ignoring Constitutional rights, and even mass murder, then distinguishing the guilty from the innocent is important and not even trying to do so is unconscionable. Even Ann Coulter exhibited more compassion toward Muslims when she suggested killing their leaders and forcibly converting them to Christianity than some people are expressing in this thread.
I too, know many Muslims who abhor the violent, supremacist actions of some of their co-religionists. In fact, my dearest friend; a man I have trusted my life to on several occasions, is a devout, Shia Muslim. That doesn't change the obvious fact that there is something about Islam that today compels a broad swath of its adherents to murder non-Muslims, and mostly other Muslims, in the name of God.
And I have no problem discussion that and also have a problem with the limitation of free speech rights going on to prevent Muslims from being offended. I'm not advocating appeasement. I'm advocating justice which must include not persecuting and slaughtering innocents simply because they belong to a broad group that contains some dangerous characters.
However, if I were to walk outside of my apartment and begin making statements against Islam, I would likely be beaten to death within a very short time.
What does that tell you?
It tells me something that I already know, which is that plenty of Muslims in the Middle East can't handle free speech and criticism of their religion. But what percentage of Muslims there would actually initiate or participate in your slaughter? 100%? 80%? 50%? 20%? 5%? And as I've already mentioned earlier in the thread that I think that could make a great litmus test for immigrants. Can a potential immigrant to the United States watch a movie that contains the infamous cartoons of Muhammed and other blaphemous remarks about Islam (as well as other religions and perhaps even some proselytizing to annoy militant atheists, to be fair) without turning violent or freaking out? If so, then I think they'd do fine here. If not, then maybe they should be sent home. And maybe we should work harder on getting them to accept more free speech in their counties, too. We should look at how individuals behave and what they think rather than trying to exclude an entire group.
Of course the elephant in the room that nobody talks about is that we probably wouldn't even be having any of these discussions if it weren't for oil and oil money.