I live down here in Chula Vista and lately (maybe last 2 months) we have been getting buzzed by Cobras a lot. I don’t know if they are flying in and out of OLF Imperial Beach or what but they are always coming from or heading in the direction of IB so maybe they are running training missions from there. Doesn’t bother me watching them at all buzzing by, sometimes 3-4 in a group. It does drive you nuts though when they go by at 2 oclock in the morning at 500ft because they are not the quietest things and I have been woken up by them many times.
Anyway, a few times we have been outside when they have gone over and they are way low passing over the houses and sometimes with the way they are whipping around, fun to watch, but looks like they may be goofing off or hot dogging. Honestly us, and a couple neighbors, we have talked and always say that one of these days one is going to end up in someones back yard.
For a Cobra and a C-130 to collide in some very open space seems odd. Were not talking about 2 real fast moving aircraft so coming upon each other and not having time to avoid each other, especially with the maneuverability of the Cobra seems odd. I pray for the crews and hope this wasn’t the case of one or both of the crews messing around because for those 2 to just be flying along and run into each other seems like a long shot, especially with collision avoidance, that I assume is probably at least on the C-130 and a Cobra having radar capable of shooting objects miles away. Someone mentioned refueling, I know that CC ones are equipped to refuel CC choppers for extended search and rescue but don’t know if they train or participate in refueling Marine/Navy choppers.
I flew Cobras out of Camp Pendleton from 1998-2002 with HMLA 169 “the Vipers”.
I’d like to put my 2 cents worth in here on some things that have been said.
Pylon, you mention “goofing off” or “hot dogging”. Aviators use the term “flat hatting” to describe what you’re talking about, and let me just say that there’s another possible explanation for what you were seeing. I believe what you were seeing were tactical turns. “Whipping around” is how a section of Cobras (2) orients themselves on to an enemy that has opened fire on them from the rear of either flank. Is it fun? Yes. Does it look like “flat hatting”? Sure. But it is essential to how we fight ad survive, and although I cannot unequivocally state that what you were seeing were tac turns - I think we should give them the benefit of the doubt. Also, if I were still flying, I’d be flat hatting over Otay Mesa, not along the Coast where a bunch of active duty folks could tattle!!
Second, Cobra’s DO NOT have radar or any other collision avoidance gear, per se. The main gun is fired using FLIR, TV camera or Kentucky windage. The Hellfire missile is guided by a laser spot and the TOW missile is a combination of TV camera and wire guidance. The Cobra is capable of carrying AIM-9 anti-aircraft missiles, but those are heat seekers. Collision avoidance in a Cobra boils down to keeping your eyes open, depending on whatever controlling agency (if there is one) and also being tuned up to the local traffic common frequency and listening for aircraft checking in with their numbers (location, airspeed, altitude, heading).
Third, when I was flying, we shot our weapons on San Celemente - rarely - but we shot. Alot of other posts talk about how strange it would be for these two aircraft to be in the same airspace. Well....speaking from a pilot’s perspective - we trained in and around San Clemente, and C-130’s are in the business of patrolling those waters for a multitude of reasons - its more surprising that they were at the same altitude, not over the same point on the ground.
Fourth, Cobras can’t aerial refuel. The only Marine Helo that can aerial refuel is the CH-53E.
Finally, it’s always sad when these things happen. I was a mishap investigator and I can say that there are always learning points that come out of the investigation and that whatever series of events led up to this thing will be briefed and re-briefed to all the ready rooms up and down the coast. Hopefully, the guys who are left behind will be armed with information that will help them execute there jobs that much safer.
God Bless them and their families.
Any word of any survivors yet?
At one time Ream Field Imperial Beach was the major Helicopter Base and known Helicopter capital of the world
Later the choppers were located over to North Island Naval Air Station.
Ream Field, Imperial Beach is now a Naval Auxiliary area
and presently operates as a branch of the NAS North Island Naval station.
Border Patrol choppers may also use the field as is close to the border.