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To: OldDeckHand
This is why conservative candidates at every level need to continue to fight for school vouchers.

Eh. I'm not so enthusiastic about vouchers, since it still implies government control over where parents can send their children to school or what young Americans can study. In other words, vouchers are only Band-Aids on a gaping wound. I would rather that--

  1. The Department of Education should be dismantled entirely.

  2. Get rid of NCLB, as it federalizes what is the responsibility of individual parents and local communities.

  3. "Sunset" the federal student loan program for college students. Any students who are still in the pipeline should be allowed to continue to borrow for up to seven years (depending on degree type), but no entering students should be allowed to borrow under the federal student loan program. The availability of cheap, government-backed credit has distorted the marketplace for higher education credentials (namely, undergraduate degrees) by essentially treating all degrees as equal when, in reality, different degrees and majors have different earning potentials. Federal loans have contributed largely to the persistent and dramatic increases in tuition and fees over the last three decades and have actually increased the percentage of graduating students who start their lives in debt.

  4. At the local and state level, retain K-12 schools, merit-based post-secondary (vocational or "university") programs that are "high performing" (e.g., TJHSST in Northern Virginia). Establish a uniform set of standards (see the uniform set of test standards below) for these schools, and fund them in full.

  5. Improve the quality and the security of public libraries, and explore widening access to major public research libraries through the use of digital technologies, using technologies that are open-source and based on open, public standards. Make course materials for undergraduate classes available for free over the Internet. Make available tutors (the equivalent of today's teachers) at local libraries, and allow tutors to set their hourly rates.

  6. At the local and state level, establish a uniform set of tests that can be taken by individual students for a fixed per-test fee, and establish a uniform set of standards that constitute a "public education" (i.e., demonstrate competency on a number of tests, participate in an apprenticeship or hold a part-time job, etc.).

The purpose of public education is to provide citizens and other lawful residents with opportunities, regardless of their means, to improve themselves by gaining knowledge and skills and to become better people, i.e., people who will guard and defend the liberties and freedoms that have defined American society from its inception. That's the true goal of public education, and IMO, one that is consistent with the view of Mr. Jefferson.

Forget the traditional classroom with desks and a teacher. Make the information available for free in public libraries, organized of course, make tutors available on an hourly basis, and allow students to study on their own and pass certification tests. Lincoln studied by the fireside at night, in his spare time, and he became President.

20 posted on 10/20/2009 3:11:02 PM PDT by rabscuttle385 (http://restoretheconstitution.ning.com/)
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To: bamahead

see 20


21 posted on 10/20/2009 3:11:24 PM PDT by rabscuttle385 (http://restoretheconstitution.ning.com/)
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To: rabscuttle385
"Lincoln studied by the fireside at night, in his spare time, and he became President."

Yes, but this isn't 1830, where virtually everyone was raised in a two-person, agricultural society, and where the mother bore the responsibility of educating her children. The fact of the matter is that in-school education also keeps a LOT of kids out of situations where they'd probably be destroying their lives, and quite possibly the lives of others. That is not going to change ANYTIME soon, no matter how much someone wishes it would.

""Sunset" the federal student loan program for college students."

Three years ago, China began to graduate more engineers than the US graduates total under-grad students. If we are going to continue to be the technology leader, we have to increase the number of students in getting degrees - especially engineering degrees - not decrease them.

The student loan program makes college available to MANY students that couldn't otherwise afford to go to a quality school. It may have some inflationary impact on tuition, but the lion's share of tuition inflation is a direct result of powerful teaching & administrative unions, just like those union increase the per-pupil costs in primary & secondary eduction.

Unions aren't going away, short of impeaching virtually every federal court judge and half of the Supreme Court, and replacing them with libertarians or conservatives. And, while the DOE could possibly be weakened or down-sized, it's not totally going away either.

The only realistic alternative continues to be school vouchers.

25 posted on 10/20/2009 3:29:36 PM PDT by OldDeckHand (No Socialized Medicine, No Way, No How, No Time)
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To: rabscuttle385
Federal loans have contributed largely to the persistent and dramatic increases in tuition and fees over the last three decades and have actually increased the percentage of graduating students who start their lives in debt
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

This is what would happen to private schools if vouchers were widely available.

So?....You have made some excellent points. I would suggest that the test be private and that the government have no control over content or administration. And...Why not turn all sports, music, theater, and art over to the county departments of recreation?

Why couldn't conservatives set up such a system of tuition-free tutors now? I believe could do this, but sadly many do not understand or recognize that our system of government education is literally freedom's most urgent and dangerous threat.

If conservatives can endow places like Harvard with its endowment of 35 BILLION, why couldn't conservatives endow private K-12 education?

Answer: Of course they could! Conservatives are simply lacking leadership.

Another problem for conservatives in going against the government schools is that government schools are a price-fixed monopoly that is giving its services away and setting the price for the parents using those services at zero. If conservatives were to attempt to set up an alternative system based on your model, these conservative educational services would also need to be free.

I suggest that conservatives set up education foundations. The foundations would award grants to conservative teachers. The teachers would set up tuition-free one room school houses, mini-schools, homeschool co-ops, and tutoring centers. The foundations would certify the teacher, test the students, and approve the curriculum. The teachers would use many of the techniques that you suggested, but most would have their “offices” in their home, professional buildings, day care centers, or store front strip malls.

The conservative education foundations would also run regions sports programs, and organize theater, music, and arts programs.

It is important not to neglect sports because teams sports dive the culture of many communities and this means loyalty to a government school. The government monopoly over team sports must be broken.

66 posted on 10/21/2009 6:39:16 AM PDT by wintertime (People are not stupid! Good ideas win!)
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