Posted on 09/20/2009 10:51:33 AM PDT by AJKauf
It would be understandable for those who closely follow politics to have missed Republican Senator Olympia Snowe’s comments on health care a couple of days ago.
The second week of September was an unusually big week for partisan politics (and that’s saying something in this day and age). Commentators on both sides of the divide sparred bitterly over the crowd estimates for the massive 9/12 Taxpayer March on the National Mall. In addition, the drip, drip, drip of scandalous revelations surrounding the ACORN “prostitution sting” further strained the lengths of recent political polarization. And as the weekend neared, allegations of racist opposition to President Barack Obama’s policies — aired by former President Jimmy Carter, no less — had further dashed the longstanding hopes for bipartisan cooperation that followed Barack Obama’s inauguration in January.
Given all that, Senator Snowe’s mid-week remarks on her place in a changing GOP might seem tame. Snowe, a moderate Republican and senior senator from Maine, stated that “I haven’t changed as a Republican, I think more that my party has changed.”...
(Excerpt) Read more at pajamasmedia.com ...
Excellent summation. I hope that more Republicans get over this rough patch and see things your way.
The history of a senate seat once occupied by Everett Dirksen (R Il.) since he held it will speak volumes to this thread.
"Irrelevant" was your word, not mine. They are relevant only in the sense that they are the enemy within. We can appeal to ALL people if we just refuse to take any meaningful ideological stance. However, when we get someone elected, it's impossible to tell what they'll do or what direction they'll go. But I guess that's okay as long as they put "R" behind their name.
This is not a church, the end result is not salvation.
No, but the end result may very well be extinction. There is no need to apologize for being conservative, nor is there any need to compromise. We don't need people who aren't going to support us anyway. If you're not with us on doctrinaire principles, then you're only a fellow traveler at best. In the coming fight, we need people we can count on, not Olympia Snowe.
We need some things done in reality, not in heaven. For that you need these people.
We don't "have" those people. Olympia Snowe votes with the GOP only about as often as she votes with the Dems. How is she on "our" side?
Sometimes you have to tear down before you can rebuild. The GOP is a worthless shell as it stands now. I endorse gutting it and replacing the worn-out, broken-down, tepid RINOs with principled conservatives. And if that means we lose in the meantime, then lose we must. Call it a tactical retrograde.
Compromising with leftist vermin is what brought us to this pass to begin with. The Left never gives ground, and every inch we yield is one we'll never recover. There are no more inches to yield.
Yep
Enough with this RINO hunt nonsense.
I don't smooch the backside of the GOP, sorry.
You people need to start living in a little place called reality.
You need to realize that Republicans who vote with Dems the majority of the time do not have our best interests at heart. Why should I support a liberal Republican when I can get the real thing from the Dem?
Your party will continue to lose if it won’t change. Purge the RINOs. You are as bad as Obama. No reality. You’re an empty suit and you know it. Loser!
“They are relevant only in the sense that they are the enemy within.”
They are not the “enemy”. They are merely people with a different set of attitudes and opinions. They are not even such different opinions as, say, the 50% that are indubitably on the other side. They are extremely relevant in the business of getting a majority.
“nor is there any need to compromise”
If there is no compromise in policies or political dealing there is no meaningful politics. “No compromise” assumes an expectation of a unanimity that will never happen.
“If you’re not with us on doctrinaire principles, then you’re only a fellow traveler at best.”
There is no such thing as “doctrinaire principles” to a proper conservative. Conservatism by its nature is based on realism, not principle, it is an anti-ideology. You would benefit a great deal by sitting down with this -
http://www.constitution.org/eb/rev_fran.htm
“Olympia Snowe votes with the GOP only about as often as she votes with the Dems. How is she on “our” side?”
50% is better than the alternative, who would vote with us at best 10%. This is not about ours being pure. We merely need to get our way. That is real politics, the bargaining among persons with interests that don’t overlap.
Part of the problem here is that we don’t have a European-style parliamentary system, where one can have ideologically pure parties that form coalitions with others that are distinct.
It makes some sense to maintain purity in such a scheme, to maintain the tribal identity aspect of belonging, as the internal bargaining can happen among dissimilar groups. There is no expectation of loyalty or mutual identity between the groups in such coalitions, its all business.
But here our grand coalitions are permanently “Republicans” and “Democrats”, which adds an element of confusion. We need to keep it clear in our minds that these are in fact coalitions consisting of very dissimilar people and interests, coexisting for the sake of expected results, even if only to block our mutual opponent. Any attempt at ideological tribalism is self-defeating, it amounts to breaking the coalition for the sake of internal issues of identity.
Ideological purity? Give me a break. Voting for the porkulus bill is not "moderate," it is knee-jerk liberal. Supporting "triggers" (Read: more taxes and regulations) on health insurance companies is not "moderate." What type of example did she set by doing these?
She's pro gun-control, pro-homosexual rights, pro-big government....Please re-read the FR homepage. This is not a Republican Party forum.
This is the problem right here - a conservative who refuses to think, much less argue.
We normally lambaste the other side because we rightly understand their lack of logic and knowledge.
But here we have one of our own (and several others on this thread) demonstrating the same incapacities.
You're already getting pro-communist legislation thanks to people like Snowe, Collins, etc. All they're doing is giving the left phony "bipartisanship" cover. I would rather have Democrats in their place so they can take responsibility for the crap they pass. Has it ever occurred to you that the Dems have the votes to pass anything they want but they won't without some RINOs crossing over?
In Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Rhode Island, and Connecticut, RINO is as good as it gets. The Dems have moved decisively Left - because they can beat "real Republicans" seven days a week with commies in those states
That's a ridiculous argument and a self-fulfilling prophecy to boot. The reason why conservative Republicans haven't won in the NE is because they haven't TRIED. The Stupid Party is too stupid to run on principles and give the voters there a sharp contrast in choice. How did Reagan win his landslides in the NE then? He sure as Hell didn't "moderate" or pander to "the middle" for his agenda.
That's ten seats. RINOs can beat those commies.
RINOs are gradually losing power in the NE - Shays, Chaffee, and Jeffords have all LOST their seats.
You cannot replace those ten seats under any circumstances. If you don't support RINOs (where they can get a majority), then you can't have the Senate.
Listen buddy, I don't care about "taking back" the Senate or Congress. If Republicans don't run on their principles, then it really doesn't matter. Keep in mind that the GOP held Congress for 12 years and didn't do anything in terms of enacting real change in Washington.
Newsflash: Snowe and Collins VOTED FOR PORKULUS and they are ready to compromise on Obamacare! Rep Mark Kirk of IL is liberal on ALL the issues - does that mean we should support him to for the sake of keeping some "majority?"
Calling conservatism "purity" is specious. Even support for one issue - be it global warming, amnesty, abortion, gun control, etc immediately discredits the rest of your beliefs.
Why would you want to get the real thing from the Dem?
In 2007-2008 National Federation of Independent Business (that's NFIB) gave Senator Snowe a rating of 100 in its 110th (2007-2008) Pre-Election Congressional Report.
Senator Snowe is a Capitalist.
Democrats are Socialists, Fascists, Communists and other extremely extreme Extremists...of course, if the majority of Mainers want "the real thing from a Democrat" that's what they'll get. Apparently Right Down Your Alley.
“Call it a tactical retrograde.”
It seems rather like an immature snit.
There is no such thing as a deliberate rereat in politics. Winning is the only thing, because without it nothing in your program will happen, and you leave a clear field to your opponents - the outcomes of which are likely to be irreversible. Read Burke on that again - once an institutional change is enacted, it becomes part of the great social edifice, dependencies and constituencies are attached, and it becomes set as an element of what the people consider the established social structure. Their natural “conservatism” (Bukean, not necessarily yours) will properly resist change. Consider how little of what Roosevelt, Truman or Johnson established has been changed, or can be.
“every inch we yield is one we’ll never recover”
Well yes, see above.
Jump to the ‘Rat party with your big tent and the Yellow Snowe. Your problem is you are DEMOCRAT. Loser!
Not because I support their goals, but that they would own the crap they pass and people will see how far to the left they are. With Republicans giving them cover, the left gets a pass.
In 2007-2008 National Federation of Independent Business (that's NFIB) gave Senator Snowe a rating of 100 in its 110th (2007-2008) Pre-Election Congressional Report.
This is 2009. Snowe supports taxpayer-funded bailouts and running up the debt. And she supports Obamacare even though she's trying to waffle on it now. These will destroy small businesses.
Senator Snowe is a Capitalist.
ROFL
Democrats are Socialists, Fascists, Communists and other extremely extreme Extremists...of course, if the majority of Mainers want "the real thing from a Democrat" that's what they'll get. Apparently Right Down Your Alley.
Yep, right down my alley. My enemy right in front of me instead of stabbing me in the back.
Your policies have NEVER survived over time. History is on my side. The only one who is ignorant is staring directly at you in the mirror. Loser!
“does that mean we should support him to for the sake of keeping some “majority?” “
Certainly, if the alternative is a Democrat. We don’t like their votes on these things. If we still had a majority they would never have had the option to vote on them, nor probably the inclination either, seeing as they are very prone to vote with whatever the crowd wants.
Better a weathervane that gives us the committees than an active opponent that will deny us the committees.
“Even support for one issue - be it global warming, amnesty, abortion, gun control, etc immediately discredits the rest of your beliefs.”
Discredits “beliefs” ? Why do we care about “beliefs” ? All we care about is results. I don’t care if Snowe believes in little green men from Mars, as long as she votes our way 50% of the time and gives us control. The other 50% we have the option of blocking her silliness through procedure or by exploiting the 50%-ers on the other side.
The architects and keepers of The Big Tent were Ronald Reagan, Jack Kemp and Lee Atwater...all conservative Republicans. Take your ignorance back to the JBS or whatever apolitical body you represent.
“My” policies ? What are those ? Please explain them to me.
And what is this “history” you know and I don’t ?
I suspect you don’t know this “history” in fact.
Calvin Coolidge was the most conservative president of the twentieth century, and Sen. Henry Cabot Lodge, Sr. wasn't bad either.
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