The thing to remember is that even if we get to discovery in any of these cases (a long-shot in my view), discovery is not a fishing expedition.
I have no doubt that Orly - being Orly - would use the opportunity to ask for God knows what.
But, my suspicion is that if it gets to discovery, Obama will produce the certified COLB and say that is enough. And, frankly, it may be.
I don’t think Discovery is the danger that everyone else thinks it is.
Welcome to Free Republic
“I don’t think Discovery is the danger that everyone else thinks it is.”
Oh yes it is! The BC is obvious but there are plenty of other documents that might indicate if he professed to be something that he wasn’t in order to gain advantage - foreign born for college admission purposes for example.
Not unless the courts want to change law for everyone else to only have to present the COLB for school enrollment, drivers license, passports and federal positions. They are not going to do that. Or maybe they would since Obama want muslims to move here freely.
The COLB was never accepted for my children in California for DL or passports. And no copies allowed.
You may be right, but the common protest against discovery as a “fishing expedition” is typically invoked when the proponent of the discovery makes either a preposterously broad request (ie: give me a copy of every piece of paper you ever had, give me social security numbers of every member of your extended family, neighbors and friends) or when the proponent cannot make a reasonable argument for why the discovery is relevant or likely to lead to relevant evidence.
In this case, Taitz can certainly avoid both kinds of fishing expedition arguments by asking for very specific things which are very obviously relevant to the case: Besides the long form BC, school records, applications to schools and similar documents where one would likely have listed place of birth.
A part of her argument for more latitude is whatever she can present that casts doubt on the claim that 0 is a natural born citizen. Eg: the “new” Kenyan BC, submitted by affidavit of Lucas Smith. If that document can withstand some basic challenges to its authenticity, it really shifts the burden onto 0 to show his American status and justifies a thorough review of all relevant documents regarding his place of birth.
As to the certified COLB, I suppose you are talking about what was supposedly posted by the 0 campaign (the short form certificate). Again, a lot depends on how strong the doubts are based on the existing record. Sure the certified COLB enjoys a legal presumption of validity (assuming no forgery is shown), but such a presumption can be overcome with documents or other solid proofs casting doubt on its validity. The “judicious” thing to do is to see all the proofs and submit them to the test of trial. If Judge Carter’s intention is to clear up doubts about 0’s legitimacy, settling the matter based on the basis of limited proofs would not serve.
Why would Obama produce a certified copy and not Hawaii Vital Records? Would the subpoena duces tecum go to Obama or Hawaii? Please explain to me the best evidence rule for $.02.
Well, because of the rules in Hawaii at the time for issuing a COLB, it would not be enough to establish he is a natural born citizen. So if Carter accepted that, he will have solved nothing.