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When America Will Become Europe. Thoughts of Our European Future to Come [Victor Davis Hanson]
pajamasmedia.com ^ | August 12, 2009 | Victor Davis Hanson

Posted on 08/13/2009 6:55:01 AM PDT by Tolik

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To: Tolik

Inevitably, Fascism will return with a vengeance to Europe.


21 posted on 08/13/2009 7:47:26 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: Just mythoughts

I’m thinking I should start knitting, just in case.


22 posted on 08/13/2009 7:50:55 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (No Representation without Taxation!)
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To: Tolik

Victor Davis Hansen is outdoing himself at pajamasmedia.com. Every post there is a winner plus he gets erudite comments from readers. There is an archive

http://pajamasmedia.com/victordavishanson/


23 posted on 08/13/2009 7:55:55 AM PDT by dennisw (Free Republic is an island in a sea of zombies)
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To: FreedomPoster
I’m thinking I should start knitting, just in case.

(smile) Not sure if knitting will be an approved activity, it might be viewed as nonproductive or harmful to the body with all that repetitive motion.

24 posted on 08/13/2009 7:59:51 AM PDT by Just mythoughts (Bama and Company are reenacting the Pharaoh as told by Moses in Genesis!!!!!)
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To: Ulysse
We have much the same problems here in the States, where aggressive (passive-aggressive in Mexico's case) neighbors look for a chance of historical revenge, by driving immigration to our country. (The Chinese are doing the same thing to the Russian Far East/RFE.)

Businessmen who like to break wages are the major culprits driving this mass migration, and that has split the American Republican Party. The "Business Wing" (Mr. Bush, McCain, all the RNC leadership) want immigration to continue unabated, for the economic benefit of their clients, wealthy businessmen.

The result will be civil war at some point, as Mexico becomes a narcoterrorist state and its citizens in the U.S. become increasingly lawless and align with the cartels and destructive political operators in the U.S. (Alinskyites/neoCommunists).

25 posted on 08/13/2009 8:03:08 AM PDT by lentulusgracchus
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To: Tolik

Since our defensive umbrella funds Europe’s Socialism, a point VDH has often made, what will happen?

Ironic, Obama supposedly hates colonialist Europe. I guess he admires their post-colonial prostration.


26 posted on 08/13/2009 8:19:38 AM PDT by dervish (I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself)
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To: FreedomPoster
Save me a seat at the foot of the guillotines.

A superb article. Between ennui, uncontrolled immigration, and state-funded bread and circuses, social democracy is beginning to look more and more like Rome before the fall. The EU cannot stop it because the sort of sloppy egalitarianism that results in a two-tiered society is one of its founding notions. Individual European countries can recover from it once the EU breaks up, which is beginning to look like an even bet. Individual states within those countries can recover from it. Towns, villages - what we see here in the name of human freedom is the devolution of monolithic government. It isn't a new idea. Marx insisted one had to go through a stage of massive central government to get there but it would appear that the latter is actually the end state and the former a mirage. The state never does wither away, it only grows and festers.

America's secret has always been "build it and they will come" - "Land Of Opportunity" is more than an advertising slogan, it's the assurance that you will get to keep what you earn, a blunt principle that has been steadily chipped away at by people who don't. The more socialistic a country turns, the more that tendency is that you get to keep what you steal. It should be no surprise that it results in a government of thieves drawn from a ruling class of thieves.

Hence Mr. 0bama, whose resume of honest work could be written on a postage stamp. Hence the Clintons, whose principal labor was jobbing the legal system, Mr. Gore, a Tennessee thoroughbred whose antecedents are purely ruling class and whose mansion appears exempt from the laws he proposes for others, Mr. Edwards, whose own mansion was constructed on the proceeds of a lawsuit that ostensibly was to protect The People from The Corporations; the list is long and very familiar. It is an aristocracy of thieves, and the government it intends to run is a kleptocracy. Nice work if you can talk your way into it.

27 posted on 08/13/2009 9:17:30 AM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: Billthedrill

>>”Land Of Opportunity” is more than an advertising slogan, it’s the assurance that you will get to keep what you earn, a blunt principle that has been steadily chipped away at by people who don’t.

On that note, see my tagline. It’s the fix, but how we get to there is quite the quandary.

>>Nice work if you can talk your way into it.

And look at yourself in the mirror every morning. I really don’t see how they do it.


28 posted on 08/13/2009 10:04:11 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (No Representation without Taxation!)
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To: Tolik

VDH a great read as usual.


29 posted on 08/13/2009 10:12:24 AM PDT by Yardstick
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To: Tolik
Good article. A lot of what he said was spot on. The only thing I had a problem with was in the bit abour getting medical care in Europe when he said they blamed him:

You should have not let your strep get out of control!”; “If you don’t drink water, what do you expect!”; “See what happens when you don’t take all your quinine pills!”.

Those all seem like things a doctor SHOULD be saying to their patient under any health care system if they are attempting to care for them and give them sound advice... Doctors SHOULD tell you that it is vital to take the medicine prescribed to treat a serious condition. Strep throat can and does become life threatening if it lingers and your fever gets too high. Your Doctor SHOULD tell you that you should go in before the point of it being a life threatening condition. Dehydration kills a lot of ill people so your doctor SHOULD tell you to drink water to prevent dehydration. Is that blaming you or providing instructions for proper medical care...
30 posted on 08/13/2009 10:33:49 AM PDT by TomOnTheRun
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To: Tolik
VDH is just outstanding. The healthcare paragraph has great anecdotal insights for opposition to 0bamacare as well as a fascinating chronology of VDH's European healthcare visits. He's not only brilliant, he's extremely brave!:

Thoughts on DMV Health Care in extremis

Because I have traveled a great deal in my life, often recklessly so, alone, and to weird places in search of answers to topographical questions of the ancient Mediterranean world, and first-hand observations about battles and campaigns in out of the way places for several books— I have ended up over the last 36 years in a number of socialist hospitals: E-coli poisoning in Athens from tainted strawberries; a cut tendon on my index finger from a barbed wire fence in Sparta (with reaction to live tetanus vaccination); a severed ureter due to an impacted staghorn calculus kidney stone from dehydration of excavating at Corinth; a light case of malaria at Karnak, Egypt; an out of control, strep throat that turned into something more in Izmir, Turkey; a ruptured appendix, surgery, and peritonitis in Tripolis, Libya, and so on.

In each case, the care was terrible. A sole lonely doctor or maverick nurse in two cases saved my life, but on the average the facilities were filthy, and the employees akin to those in the government-run post office or bank. And a strange thing occurred as well: often the staff became mad at the patient: “Why did you come here with an appendix problem?”; You should have not let your strep get out of control!”; “If you don’t drink water, what do you expect!”; “See what happens when you don’t take all your quinine pills!”.

Socialism will always blame the patient (just watch when it comes here), I suppose for drawing on collective resources, and to focus on public enemies whose weight, smoking, or lifestyle (I do not smoke or drink, but exercise and am of reasonable weight) have betrayed the public ideal. (Fat people, and smokers (except our President) will soon become as hated in the socialist mind as jet skis, those in their 80s who want a bypass, Yukons, Tahoes and investment bankers.)

31 posted on 08/13/2009 10:33:55 AM PDT by Servant of the Cross (the Truth will set you free)
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To: Tolik
VDH describing his experiences in socialist hospitals:

In each case, the care was terrible. A sole lonely doctor or maverick nurse in two cases saved my life, but on the average the facilities were filthy, and the employees akin to those in the government-run post office or bank.

And a strange thing occurred as well: often the staff became mad at the patient: “Why did you come here with an appendix problem?”; You should have not let your strep get out of control!”; “If you don’t drink water, what do you expect!”; “See what happens when you don’t take all your quinine pills!”.

Socialism will always blame the patient (just watch when it comes here), I suppose for drawing on collective resources, and to focus on public enemies whose weight, smoking, or lifestyle (I do not smoke or drink, but exercise and am of reasonable weight) have betrayed the public ideal.

ObamaCare: Obama's intended punishment for the perceived historical "sins" of America.

32 posted on 08/13/2009 10:34:48 AM PDT by SirJohnBarleycorn
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To: TomOnTheRun

And frankly - not taking his medicine - not drinking enough water - and not seeking care quickly enough are things for which he should accept responsibility .. or blame as it were...


33 posted on 08/13/2009 10:35:10 AM PDT by TomOnTheRun
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To: Tolik

“Multiple political parties flourish, all with passionate single agenda constituents.”

Why is this a bad thing? More viewpoints get representation.


34 posted on 08/13/2009 10:53:00 AM PDT by USFRIENDINVICTORIA
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To: Biggirl

If the US does have a second civil war, it will be a great deal messier than the first.

In the WBTS the opponents were reasonably well split up geographically.

Today the groups are totally intermixed, in states, in neighborhoods and often within families.

Such a “true” civil war usually gets very nasty quickly.


35 posted on 08/13/2009 11:12:05 AM PDT by Sherman Logan ("The price of freedom is the toleration of imperfections." Thomas Sowell)
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To: Sherman Logan

>>>If the US does have a second civil war, it will be a great deal messier than the first.

In the WBTS the opponents were reasonably well split up geographically.

Today the groups are totally intermixed, in states, in neighborhoods and often within families.

Such a “true” civil war usually gets very nasty quickly.<<<

Very true observation. However, I’m seeing something different from a civil war on the level of China during the 1930s.

The American culture emerged from the cultures of Great Britain and northern Europe. Those places generally have rebellions. (Even the American Revolutionary War was a rebellion of British subjects against the Crown, and there’s a reason Confederates call themselves “rebels.”)

The metaphor for our present struggle is the Glorious Revolution of 1688, in my opinion. The question there was the divine rights of kings and political rights of Parliament. The rebellion was fought between the elites, with most of the people trying stay out of the way.

Our question is similar - should there be an all-powerful central government, or do individuals really have pre-existing rights? I’ve heard this over and over at the town hall meetings, where people have begun their statements with, “I don’t want the government to...”

On one side, there are academics, the media, the unions, and federal government officials. On the other side, there’s the military, the churches, state and local governments, talk radio, and businesses. These sides have been at war already for a while, although it hasn’t gotten to the point of outright violence. The health care proposal, however, might be the turning point.

The Glorious Revolution wasn’t a revolution like the Bolsheviks or Pol Pot. There were battles here and there. Some people (Catholics, Irish) were on the wrong side and got stepped on badly. In the long run, though, the Glorious Revolution established traditions like religious tolerance and a Bill of Rights, which were good things.

This is just a metaphor. (I don’t see anything like the Dutch navy coming into the capital... but perhaps there’s something about Sarah Palin having to come overseas to get to the Lower 48... or, much worse, a Chinese fleet coming to “save” the American government from the rebels... well, all that is science fiction.) My point is that we may get to the edge of calamnity, and back off, if free men and women are willing to stand up for their liberty. It wasn’t a good world in England for the Catholics after the Glorious Revolution, and certainly it wouldn’t be a good world for leftists if free people re-established limited government and individual rights. I’m not going to weep for the defeat of communists, though.

There is another scenario. We could have some kind of external disaster - an EMP weapon from Iran, for instance - and, for a while, there would be the collapse of the central government. The elites would battle it out locally - and since they really have no base of support without federal help in most locations, freedom and liberty would win out overall.

I guess we’ll see what happens soon enough.


36 posted on 08/13/2009 2:59:59 PM PDT by redpoll
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To: Tolik

We’re skipping right by Europe and heading for Zimbabwe.


37 posted on 08/13/2009 3:03:05 PM PDT by TADSLOS (Proud FR Mobster)
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To: TomOnTheRun

Actually he was discussing getting gratuitous condescending comments from caregivers when he was being treated in a variety of hospitals, over the span of the past 36 years. He has a lot of experience of being subjected to a system where the patient/customer is not ‘right’, but instead, an inconvenient ‘workload’ for the caregiver. IOW, the patient is much lower in the pecking order in a socialist system, than in our capitalist system of medical care delivery.


38 posted on 08/13/2009 4:53:44 PM PDT by maica (Politics is not about facts. it is about what politicians can get people to believe. - Thomas Sowell)
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To: maica
Actually he was discussing getting gratuitous condescending comments from caregivers when he was being treated in a variety of hospitals, over the span of the past 36 years. He has a lot of experience of being subjected to a system where the patient/customer is not ‘right’, but instead, an inconvenient ‘workload’ for the caregiver. IOW, the patient is much lower in the pecking order in a socialist system, than in our capitalist system of medical care delivery.

That makes much more sense. All the examples he gave though sound like important medical directives to me though. He should choose better examples. That being said - I've experienced medical care in both systems as well. I'm still treated like an inconvenient workload in America. I don't think profit motive is the reasoning behind that. I think that has more to do with Doctors having God Complexes.
39 posted on 08/13/2009 5:20:27 PM PDT by TomOnTheRun
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To: GonzoGOP
In the US the tax consumers are clustered in cities along the coast and the great lakes. The tax producers are in the countryside.

You have it exactly backward.

Washington
Oregon
California
Minnesota
Wisconsin
Illinois
Indiana
Michigan
New York
New Jersey
Georgia
Massachusetts
Connecticut
New Hampshire
Delaware
Colorado
Nevada
Texas

These are all tax producing states. They contribute more to the Federal Government than they receive. They are clustered along the coast and the Great Lakes. The rest, the "countryside" as you call it, are all tax consumers. There is your welfare state.

This is not by accident. It was set up that way as a matter of national policy. The productive people are supporting the goobers.

40 posted on 08/13/2009 5:55:22 PM PDT by MARTIAL MONK
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