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To: Knitebane
When Roe is overturned, abortion will still be murder and murder will still be against the law in all states. I doubt that you would advocate a state's legalization of murder of a four year old child.

And that being the case, you would not advocate a state's right to excuse the two people who take part in the murder of a four year old child.

That being the case, I assume that you would not advocate a state not charging and not prosecuting one of two people that conspire to kill a baby.

167 posted on 06/08/2009 2:20:18 PM PDT by trumandogz (The Democrats are driving us to Socialism at 100 MPH -The GOP is driving us to Socialism at 97.5 MPH)
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To: trumandogz; Knitebane
"When Roe is overturned, abortion will still be murder and murder will still be against the law in all states."

I haven't been following this thread, so forgive me if this point has already been made, but this is factually incorrect. Overturning Roe per se would not instantly illegalize abortion across the 50 states. Some states have their status quo ante laws still on the books; some do not. It would then be up to the states to resolve as they will.

And when I say "the states" I mean both the state legislatures and the state courts. Some state Supreme Courts have ruled that their state constitutions support a "right" to abortion analogous to Roe; some have even ruled that their state constitution supports a "right" to abortion exceeding the one in Roe: for instance, IIRC some have asserted that their state constitution requires that the abortion right be advanced via state funding for abortion, e.g. for the indigent or for pregnant incarcerated women.

Though abortion is murder objectively speaking by any reasonable definition, it would not become proscribed by 50 state homicide codes automatically upon the overturning of Roe. This would, however, open up a spate of action in all the states at the level of legislation AND lawsuit.

168 posted on 06/08/2009 3:05:22 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Point of information.)
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To: trumandogz
When Roe is overturned, abortion will still be murder and murder will still be against the law in all states. I doubt that you would advocate a state's legalization of murder of a four year old child.

One, I'm not advocating anything. I'm telling you what the law is.

Second, killing someone is not murder. Murder has a specific legal definition. Murder is the taking of a human life without just cause. The law defines what just cause is and what a human life is.

Roe v. Wade did not "make abortion legal." Roe v. Wade said that existing state laws against abortion were unconstitutional and were therefore not to be enforced.

That means that with Roe in place, all state laws that ban abortion are subject to Supreme Court oversight. As the current Supreme court decree is that any law that outright bans abortion would be overturned due to the current validity of the Roe case, there are currently no state laws that cover a complete ban on abortion because there are no state laws that specify exactly what a human life is. That would have to be spelled out by the legislatures of the several states and survive the inevitable court cases seeking to overturn such laws.

So, if Roe were to be overturned tomorrow, that would not automatically make abortion illegal.

And even if it did, the facts are the facts.

Even when abortion was illegal, only two women have ever been charged and tried for aborting their child and both of those were prior to 1923.

So the idea that "Yes, and when Roe is overturned and abortion is made illegal, women who have abortions will be charged with murder" is just a bunch of crap.

It didn't happen before when abortion was illegal. The idea that if Roe were overturned that women seeking illegal abortions would suddenly be locked up is ludicrous at best.

171 posted on 06/09/2009 11:18:17 AM PDT by Knitebane (Happily Microsoft free since 1999.)
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