Sorry, sport, but it's your argument, not mine - you stated that the union formed under the specific written terms of the new Constitution (established between 9 States, NOT 13) was “A new government but not a new Union.” By all means please tell us, how a union between 13 States (established under the Articles of Confederation) was the same union ("not a new Union") as that established between 9 States (please see Article VII of the United States Constitution) ratifying the new compact. As I have pointed out repeatedly, nine does not equal thirteen, nor does nine equal twelve, nor does nine equal eleven, or even ten. The first nine ratifying States clearly seceded from the union formed under the Articles of Confederation, establishing a new government, and a new union, between themselves, as is more than obviously apparent from the specific written terms of the two compacts (the Articles, and the Constitution) "[A] weak arguing technique?" 'Not hardly.' I cite the specific written terms of the compacts, while you base your arguments on some imaginary 'unwritten law.'
Another weak arguing technique: insult and ridicule. Also a technique used in the pseudo Delphi process for reaching consensus (as opposed to the legitimate Delphi process). And a technique used by some in authority to show “who the boss is”.
Knock yourself out: you're still wrong. In reality, our current "boss" (Obama) is offering the same type of arguments as you do - those based on 'unwritten law,' rather than the specific written terms of the United States Constitution. Hope you enjoy the company...
Regarding: “is the Union continuous or did one Union end and a new Union begin with the Constitution”
I say the United States predates the Constitution, existing as a continuous Union through the establishment of the Constitution and I say so based on words of the time some of which are noted below:
The Preamble to the Constitution does not state “We the people of the United States formed by this Constitution”, it states “We the people of the United States” noting the United States as a preexisting Union.
The Virginia ratification document states: “…whatsoever imperfections may exist in the Constitution ought rather to be examined in the mode prescribed therein than to bring the Union into danger…” showing they thought the Union existed and had not been dissolved.
The Rhode Island ratification document states: “Done…in the fourteenth year of the Independence of the United States of America” showing they thought the Union was in the fourteenth year of its continuing existence, which would mean it had not been dissolved.
You say “The first nine ratifying States clearly seceded from the union formed under the Articles of Confederation, establishing a new government, and a new union, between themselves…” and you ” cite the specific written terms of the compacts” by which I believe you mean:
The Ratification of the Conventions of nine States, shall be sufficient for the Establishment of this Constitution between the States so ratifying the Same. (Article VII of the United States Constitution.)
Every State shall abide by the determinations of the United States in Congress assembled, on all questions which by this confederation are submitted to them. And the articles of this confederation shall be inviolably observed by every State, and the Union shall be perpetual; nor shall any alteration at any time hereafter be made in any of them; unless such alteration be agreed to in a Congress of the United States, and be afterwards confirmed by the Legislatures of every State. (Article XIII, Articles of Confederation.) (Emphasis added.)
So again, to support my contention that the Union predates the “US Constitution and continued as the same Union through and after the establishment of the US Constitution, all I have to do is point to the clear words written at the time, which I have done.
And again, for you to support your contention that the pre US Constitution Union and the post US Constitution Union are not the same, you have to demonstrate the dissolution of the pre US Constitution Union and negate the clear words written at the time to which I have pointed.
You can’t point to clear words (i.e. such and such state hereby secedes or such and such states are hereby kicked out or the Union is hereby dissolved) written at the time to demonstrate the dissolution of the Pre US Constitution Union. If you could you would, since you haven’t I conclude you can’t.
What you have done instead is put forth your 9/13 argument and cite Article VII of the US Constitution and Article XIII of the Articles of Confederation as some attempt at support because the Constitutional requirement is for ratification by 2/3 of the States to implement the Constitution while the requirement in the Articles is for confirmation by every State. But the thing is, every State did confirm/ratify the Constitution. The first 2/3 ratified and waited to see if the other 1/3 would ratify and hold to the Perpetual Union, which they did. And again, regardless of the modern (I assume) 9/13 argument for dissolution of one Union and establishment of another Union, the people at the time did not recognize that to be the case as demonstrated by my citations above. And they were there.
Sorry, sport, but it's your argument, not mine –
A falsehood by your own words. You wrote of me “you stated that the union formed…was “A new government but not a new Union.” You quoted me accurately there. I did not write “political union”, you added that distinction, it’s your place to provide the enlightenment.
“…you base your arguments on some imaginary 'unwritten law.”
Another falsehood. My argument for a continuous Union at the time is based on the written words of the time as demonstrated further up this post.
Note that when I write “falsehood” I am not accusing you of lying. I think you believe it, but belief in a falsehood doesn’t make it true.
I’m not going bother refuting the rest of what I think of as falsehoods in your post.
We seem to be at loggerheads here and this has become more tedious and repetitive than interesting so I’m going to go on to other things and leave all this to the search engines and posterity.
Go ahead and take the last shot but remember, someday, somewhere, somebody besides us will read it.