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To: Carry_Okie

“There was only one “crafter” of the DoI: Jefferson,”

Au contraire. There actually was a committee that drafted the Declaration with Jefferson. Virtually every word and phrase was then debated and much editing was done by the entire delegation ... if you ever go to the National Archives, they have what Jefferson drafted and the final product.

Others, not present in Philadelphia, had some influence as well:

” That all men are born equally free and independent, and have certain inherent natural Rights… among which are the Enjoyment of Life and Liberty, with the Means of acquiring and possessing Property, and pursueing and obtaining Happiness and Safety.” — George Mason. Virginia Declaration of Rights, May, 1776.

Has a familiar ring, wouldn’t you say?

Why would the drafters/signers of the Declaration be formulating our system of government ... for all they knew when they took that courageous, unprecedented step, none of them would live to form a government, limited or otherwise. Breaking free from the monarchy was a first, tenuous step. As fate would have it, many of them did emerge from the Revolutionary War penniless, having lost their fortunes; several lost members of their families, but they kept intact their sacred honor.

The point remains that the educated class in the colonies in those days were steeped in both the Old and New Testaments. Whether they took it to heart, or lived exemplary Judeo-Christian lives is yet another question. Probably moreso than the Jews and Christians of today.


56 posted on 05/25/2009 8:20:49 PM PDT by EDINVA (A government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul -- G. B. Shaw)
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To: EDINVA
Au contraire. There actually was a committee that drafted the Declaration with Jefferson.

Jefferson wrote the draft and was surprised at the degree to which it remained intact.

Has a familiar ring, wouldn’t you say?

Yes, John Locke.

Why would the drafters/signers of the Declaration be formulating our system of government ... for all they knew when they took that courageous, unprecedented step, none of them would live to form a government, limited or otherwise. Breaking free from the monarchy was a first, tenuous step. As fate would have it, many of them did emerge from the Revolutionary War penniless, having lost their fortunes; several lost members of their families, but they kept intact their sacred honor.

This has nothing whatever to do with the question of structure.

The point remains that the educated class in the colonies in those days were steeped in both the Old and New Testaments. Whether they took it to heart, or lived exemplary Judeo-Christian lives is yet another question. Probably moreso than the Jews and Christians of today.

Which has nothing whatever to do with what I originally posted. Nice try.

59 posted on 05/25/2009 9:38:26 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (There are people in power with a passion for evil.)
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To: EDINVA
BTW, you are posting this misdirection to one who has read the entirety of Farrand's Records and posted scholarly articles on the drafting of the Constitution here on FR on more than one occasion. The drafting of the Declaration had virtually nothing to do with the construction of our system of limited government in the Federal Convention.

The point remains that the educated class in the colonies in those days were steeped in both the Old and New Testaments.

Your point had nothing whatever to do with the purpose of my original post. The poster of the article had said that the our system of government has Christian origins, only thereafter saying that Christianity had Jewish origins. This is to misunderstand the Enlightenment entirely (to which I commend you to the writings of Peter Gay; you will note that his second volume on the topic is subtitled "The Rise of Modern PAGANISM" not "Christianity"). The attribution of American limited government to Christianity alone, besides being completely inaccurate, is also to understate the Jewish invention at at time where there had NEVER been a precedent. By the time the Constitution was drafted, the founders were working off several models, from Greece, to Rome, to Switzerland, and the Iraquois. Worse, the seeds of tyranny were set in our latter document from the day it was drafted. In terms of limited government, ours is but a shell of the Jewish original; there is no comparison.

Sadly, how that original system in the Torah was to have worked has gone misunderstood for over three thousand years; it has never been performed as originally intended. I am just completing a book on the topic as we write.

61 posted on 05/25/2009 10:09:46 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (There are people in power with a passion for evil.)
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