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To: rabscuttle385

The United States has not succeeded in eliminating drugs, but that in itself doesn’t mean we should give up.

You have to have a positive reason why drugs should not be a concern for the government, not just a “well, we can’t control it, so why bother”. After all, such an argument would prevent us from ever stopping abortion. And we’ve made shoplifting illegal for decades and people still shoplift.

If more people would use drugs if we stopped trying to fight it, that would mean we didn’t “lose”, we simply couldn’t win.


23 posted on 05/21/2009 11:17:17 PM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: CharlesWayneCT

WHERE in the Constitution is government handed the authority to ban substances which folks might ingest? WHERE? Please be very specific.


25 posted on 05/21/2009 11:21:06 PM PDT by dcwusmc (We need to make government so small that it can be drowned in a bathtub.)
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To: CharlesWayneCT
Should we decriminalize?

It seems to me the question is not whether you or I should care about what a third party puts into his body, that is afterall a moral judgment, rather, the question is whether the government should care about what someone puts into his body?

Clearly the government has a constitutional right to regulate and criminalize drugs just as it has the right to regulate food and ethical drugs. The question is not whether it's constitutional but whether it is good public policy.

Seems to me that if a government prohibition on the use of drugs actually eliminated drug use, few except perhaps some aging hippies and top models would argue vehemently against such laws which would redeem so many wretched lives. But experience has shown that government fiat does not eliminate drug use. So the real question is, does government prohibition reduce drug use? And if it does, is the price worth paying? It is not entirely clear that the laws against drug use actually reduce their use because the prohibition itself creates a financial incentive which works to subsidize its use. The government has never found a way to eliminate or reduce drug usage without inserting a profit factor. Worse, the more the government is effective in reducing the inflow of illegal drugs, the more it creates a counter incentive of increased profitability by the law of supply and demand. Perversely, since the drugs tend to be addictive there is a physical compulsion to seek more of the drug and, since government efforts to eliminate it inevitably raise its price, users in withdrawal are tempted to finance their habits by becoming dealers. So it is not clear whether the government's efforts to reduce drugs by prohibiting their use actually does more harm than good.

One of the prices we pay for our government's campaign against drugs is certainly a loss of liberty. I tend towards the Libertarian's view that it is none of the government's damn business what I put in my body. However, I recognize that such usage inevitably presents a risk to society. I do not want inebriated drivers plowing into my automobile whether they are drunk on alcohol or drugs. But society has learned a hard lesson, that it is better to make the drunk driving the crime but not the consumption of alcohol itself.

Another price we pay is a loss of privacy. Mandatory testing of both government and private employees is to some degree intrusive. Queries about drug use and application forms are equally intrusive. Undercover agents operating in public bathrooms is an affront to our dignity. Eavesdropping of telephone conversations is unquestionably an invasion of privacy. It is the reduction, or rather the presumed reduction, if any, in the amount of drug usage obtained by these intrusions worth the price?

We pay a great financial price as well. The war on drugs costs us billions of dollars annually in enforcement and incarceration costs. Is this money well spent?

There is an insidious price as well: corruption and its handmaiden, cynicism. Our police, our border agents, our judges, one might say the entire criminal justice apparatus has been infected with a corruption generated by the huge profits to be made-profits which are there only because the government by its policies has created them. Inevitably cynicism results in the whole of the people beginning to despise rather than revere the rule of law.

Because drugs are illegal, the price is high and profits are enormous. Yet we send our boys to fight in Afghanistan to deprive Taliban chieftains of their poppy fields which finance at least indirectly the very terrorism we fight against. Would it not be better simply to eliminate the profits in poppies by legalizing the drug? Can we ever hope to bring sanity to Columbia while we in effect subsidize narcos by billions of dollars a year? Is the damage to our foreign policy, like the damage to our precious rule of law, worth what benefit we get from criminalizing drugs use?

On balance, I have to throw my lot in with William F. Buckley and say that the war against drugs is lost and we ought to try a new tact.


42 posted on 05/22/2009 1:09:28 AM PDT by nathanbedford ("Attack, repeat, attack!" Bull Halsey)
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To: CharlesWayneCT
You have to have a positive reason why drugs should not be a concern for the government

No, the government has to have a positive and compelling reason for interfering with the private lives of citizens. "I don't like druggies" is insufficient.

46 posted on 05/22/2009 1:42:43 AM PDT by garbanzo (Government is not the solution to our problems. Government is the problem.)
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To: CharlesWayneCT
What other people put into their bodies is really none of your, or my, business. Drugs have been around since alcohol was invented, actually before that even. Before the turn of the century(20th) and for a few years after drugs were legal in the US, in fact cocaine was used in making coca cola, not much, a very small, small amount. Drug users were no more plentiful then than they are now, just as people kept drinking when prohibition was in effect people keep using drugs whether they are legal or not. In fact, being illegal and such a great money maker for gangs and other drug dealers, children are more apt to become drug users and addicts simply because dealers push drugs onto children.

It is profitable don't you see? Legalize drugs, take the money out of it and the crime either goes away completely or close to it. No more money to finance well armed gangs, no more shoot outs on the border, drugs cause those shoot outs, drugs finance the gangs such as MS13.

Claiming the high ground is simply BS. Don't want to do drugs? Don't do them, I don't. The only ones who are damaged with legal drugs are the ones taking them, no one else. The people who are damaged when drugs are illegal are too numerous to count, but of course moralistic people can't be concerned about the many victims caused by the war on drugs. They have to make sure everyone lives just the way they want them to.

People who think drugs should be illegal are actually liberals, because they want to control what others do.

I am not a drug user, never have been, I am not a libertarian, never have been. I am a realist and a person who learns from history and I use common sense and not a moralistic desire to control other people.

50 posted on 05/22/2009 1:57:49 AM PDT by calex59
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