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To: balls; dennisw; Mr. Silverback; YHAOS; Fichori; tpanther; valkyry1; Ethan Clive Osgoode; ...
In many ways, though, the question of intentionality is beside the point. Domestication was not a single event but rather a long, complex process. Natural selection and artificial selection may both have operated at different times or even at the same time.

And they expect us to believe that he did the same thing in one generation?

In setting up our breeding experiment, Belyaev bypassed that initial trauma. He began with 30 male foxes and 100 vixens, most of them from a commercial fur farm in Estonia. The founding foxes were already tamer than their wild relatives. Foxes had been farmed since the beginning of this century, so the earliest steps of domestication-capture, caging and isolation from other wild foxes-had already left their marks on our foxes' genes and behavior.

Ooops. Tainted sample already. If he was trying to prove the point of how our ancestors domesticated WILD dogs, he needed to start with WILD foxes, same as they.

Lazy, careless short cut.

To ensure that their tameness results from genetic selection, we do not train the foxes. Most of them spend their lives in cages and are allowed only brief "time dosed" contacts with human beings. Pups are caged with their mothers until they are I/2 to 2 months old. Then they are caged with their litter mates but without their mothers. At three months, each pup is moved to its own cage.

No, they did not tame the foxes. They left them alone in cages to ensure their wildness.

Honestly, if this is what passes for science, it's no wonder that most evos believe the TOE.

And that's just skimming the first part of the article.

87 posted on 05/07/2009 2:25:44 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: metmom

“To ensure that their tameness results from genetic selection, we do not train the foxes. Most of them spend their lives in cages and are allowed only brief “time dosed” contacts with human beings. Pups are caged with their mothers until they are I/2 to 2 months old. Then they are caged with their litter mates but without their mothers. At three months, each pup is moved to its own cage.”

What is described here is a form of training, caging with contact with humans, humans who feed them, caging with and without mothers, constantly seeing humans close up as non threatening....as food providers, as dominate.
No training there!


89 posted on 05/07/2009 3:21:43 PM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: metmom

Jeepers. Thanks for the ping!


112 posted on 05/07/2009 9:24:32 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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