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To: Alamo-Girl; DBCJR; hosepipe; metmom; GodGunsGuts; editor-surveyor; Fichori; xzins
Determining what is symbolic and what is actual needs divine illumination.

I, too, agree with DBCJR's statement, but with a qualification: I really don't know how he defines "actual." Does this mean "literal," as in "a literal reading of the Biblical texts?"

If so, the symbol would already contain this literal meaning as part of itself. As Eric Voëgelin has pointed out, symbols can carry various meanings, but they all must be cognate: that is, they are all unified by the ultimate meaning of the symbol, which may "surpasseth human understanding" altogether. But this characteristic of symbols means that there are different "levels" of reading and meaning; and the plain (literal) text is the first level, or threshold of the symbol. Or at least this is how I understand symbols. Symbols must be "reflected" before they can be understood.

And my experience is that it is the Holy Spirit who draws us, who inspires us, to see in the symbol what God intends for us to see: Engagement of the holy text is a process facilitated by the Spirit. Thus long-term Bible readers often have the experience of finding "new" meanings in the text that they hadn't realized before. When the Spirit leads, the Holy Scriptures are ever new....

I feel pretty certain that you, dearest sister in Christ, could corroborate this sort of experience.

Thank you ever so much for your beautiful essay/post!

90 posted on 05/06/2009 11:04:38 AM PDT by betty boop (All truthful knowledge begins and ends in experience. — Albert Einstein)
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To: betty boop; DBCJR; hosepipe; metmom; GodGunsGuts; editor-surveyor; Fichori; xzins
Thank you oh so very much for sharing your insights, dearest sister in Christ!

And my experience is that it is the Holy Spirit who draws us, who inspires us, to see in the symbol what God intends for us to see: Engagement of the holy text is a process facilitated by the Spirit. Thus long-term Bible readers often have the experience of finding "new" meanings in the text that they hadn't realized before. When the Spirit leads, the Holy Scriptures are ever new....

So very true.

We don't just go "poof" when we become Christian and suddenly understand everything written in the words of God.

Sanctification is a walk.

[There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded [is] death; but to be spiritually minded [is] life and peace. Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. - Romans 8:1-9

The longer we walk in The Lord, the better we know Him, the more we love Him, the more we trust Him and the deeper our understanding of Scripture.

I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. - John 16:12

To God be the glory!


94 posted on 05/06/2009 11:30:25 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: betty boop; Alamo-Girl
[ Engagement of the holy text is a process facilitated by the Spirit. ]

The Holy Spirit can teach some things with People Magazine.. or .. even the bible.. even by prayer or meditation.. The problem of spiritual lessons is not the media/medium but the state of the student.. The observer problem once again..

Amazing how hard headed I was in my youth.. and how my head has softened since.. The Holy Spirit seems to be more concerned with timing than time..

What a blessing it would be to know in my youth what I know now.. My body may be a machine but my spirit is not.. There is more to knowledge than the database consulted.. You can know of something and still not know what that something is about..

110 posted on 05/06/2009 12:48:30 PM PDT by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole....)
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To: betty boop

By “actual” I mean what actually occurred. When the Bible says “the sun stood still”, did the sun stop, the earth quit rotating, or what actually transpired? “Literal” does not seem to be an option as either would have had all sorts of catastrophic consequences. The phrase “the sun stood still” seems to refer to a suspension of time of some sort. The primitive mind wrote about this in terms they understood. I’m not sure that we could explain it much better today. It was a supernatural event that defies the rational mind.


249 posted on 05/07/2009 8:29:48 PM PDT by DBCJR (What would you expect?)
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