Posted on 04/20/2009 1:43:32 PM PDT by IDRATHERNOT
Edited on 04/20/2009 2:04:21 PM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]
Madison - State Attorney General J.B. Van Hollen said openly carrying firearms is legal in a memo he sent to district attorneys Monday afternoon.
"The Department (of Justice) believes that mere open carry of a firearm, absent additional facts and circumstances, should not result in a disorderly conduct charge," the Republican attorney general wrote in the memo.
Wisconsin and Illinois are the only states that have an outright ban on carrying concealed weapons. But Wisconsin's statute is silent on carrying weapons openly, such as in a clearly visible belt holster.
But people who openly carry guns often have been charged with disorderly conduct. That police practice has come under scrutiny recently.
In February, Brad Krause was acquitted after being charged in August with disorderly conduct for having a holstered handgun while he did yard work in West Allis.
Then last week, Jesus Gonzalez filed a federal lawsuit against West Milwaukee and Chilton after police officers in those communities detained him for carrying a gun in a holster in a Menards and a Wal-Mart. In both cases, he was taken to jail but not charged.
In his memo, Van Hollen noted that the state constitution protects the right to bear arms.
"A hunter openly carrying a rifle or shotgun on his property during hunting season while quietly tracking game should not face a disorderly conduct charge," Van Hollen wrote. "But if the same hunter carries the same rifle or shotgun through a crowded street while barking at a passerby, the conduct may lose its constitutional protection."
"The same concepts should apply to handguns," he added, citing the West Allis case. He noted that brandishing a gun in public is not legal, however.
Van Hollen said police retain the right to stop someone who is openly carrying a weapon to investigate possible crimes, including disorderly conduct.
"Even though open carry enjoys constitutional protection, it may still give rise to reasonable suspicion when considered in totality," he wrote. "It is not a shield against police investigation or subsequent prosecution."
On-duty military personnel are generally uniformed, and thus already advertising themselves as serving in a military capacity (just like uniformed police officers and security guards). A mom doing back-to-school shopping in a crowded store with three young children in tow is a totally different story. She is by definition distracted, both by the purpose of her outing, and by need to keep an eye on the children. She is thus an easy target for someone looking to grab her easily visible gun, either by stealth (less likely, but not impossible, when you consider how often handbags get lifted of the back of a restaurant chair that the owner is sitting in), or overtly, by somebody bent on murderous mayhem followed by suicide.
I think you’d find plenty of situations where special military forces (and police and security guards) engaging in covert operations (i.e. non-uniformed), are indeed carrying concealed for tactical advantage.
Is that really where you want to take this discussion?
If she’s carrying concealed on her person, or in a handbag, someone looking to grab a gun isn’t going to focus on her. Sure, if it’s in her handbag, someone looking for her wallet and credit cards might end up with a gun as a bonus, but it’s unlikely that such an accidental acquisition of a gun would lead the thief to commit any violent crimes that he wouldn’t otherwise have committed.
And note that I’m not suggesting it should be illegal to open-carry. Just that it’s generally unwise unless it’s a situation where your primary focus will be on providing security for yourself and others.
I split my time between NYC and Pennsylvania. When in Pennsylvania, I carry 100% of the time — a little Keltec P32 in an outer pocket of my shoulder bag. My shoulder bag is always over my shoulder, unless I really need to put it down, and then it goes between my feet, not slung over the back of a chair. I really don’t wan’t to lose my wallet, Blackberry, or gun.
If you are carrying period, that is pretty much your primary focus.
The deterrent value of a group of openly armed people is pretty damn obvious. Arguing the point is silly.
If people only carried when carrying was their primary focus, there would be very few people carrying. Most people head out of the house every day to focus on their jobs, errands, a sports contest or theatre performance they’re attending, etc. Carrying is secondary, like taking your wallet with you — you make sure you’ve got the gun and the wallet when you leave the house, and you make sure you don’t lose them while you’re out, but your primary focus is on whatever you left the house to do.
I heard Belling talking to J.B. Van Hollen yesterday afternoon about it. I was just as surprised as you were.
Can’t wait to hear what Vicki McKenna has to say about this.
I hope you got to hear Vicki this morning. She's pretty happy about it!
Today I on WISN news breaks I heard that various libtard officials are denouncing JB’s statement. One police dept said something like, if anyone open carries, they will “take them down” first and then see if they are OK to open carry. What the Heck? Take them down? Oh yeah, that sounds perfectly fine. Not. Other places they’re saying it’s so dangerous to have open carry be approved officially by JB, when everyone knows the thugs conceal carry 24-7! Arg. Liberals, they make no sense. If the AG of WI says it’s OK to do what our state constitution says, then it’s OK. It was OK anyway if you ask me. I go by the US Constitution.
If those police take down citizens first and ask questions second, there’s gonna be lots more 2nd Amendment lawsuits filed here against the gov’t. Bring it on! Those who are active in the open carry movement here will be glad to spend some time in court to prove their point. It is tiring fighting liberalism everyday, isn’t it? But it must be done! Cheers!
Would you be so kind as to share the name of that Town and if possible the name of the Chief who actually said it?
I think it might be kind of cool to own a small town in Wisconsin and have it's former Police Chief clean my pool and mow my lawn.
Thanks in advance.
L
I wish I could remember. It was someplace in the Milwaukee radio listening area. Checking out the online Milwaukee Journal Sentinel might work. Or look for the Milwaukee area TV news websites, they have Fox Channel 6, Channel 12 is ABC. WISN am1130 also has a website and they are the ones I heard this report from several times today. It should be on the news portion of their website. This stunning news was first reported today. I was so gobsmacked, that they said they’d “take down” a law abiding open carrying citizen. I was in minor shock and the name of the town did not register. Other places are saying they will disregard what the WI Atty. General said. That is also unlawful and stupid. Oh wait, we’re talking liberals here. Stupid is as stupid does!
I found the webpage for the Milw. paper and here is the link for the article:
http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/43347632.html
Milwaukee Police Chief Ed Flynn said “My message to my troops is if you see anybody carrying a gun on the streets of Milwaukee, we’ll put them on the ground, take the gun away and then decide whether you have a right to carry it.”
“Maybe I’ll end up with a protest of cowboys. In the meantime, I’ve got serious offenders with access to handguns. It’s irresponsible to send a message to them that if they just carry it openly no one can bother them.”
As the saying goes: You can beat the rap but you can’t beat the ride.
Now if it were LaCrosse I'd be up there on Saturday just begging some local cop to "put me face down."
L
LOL. I’d have to pass on owning Milwaukee too. It is so screwed up.
It’s true that Open Carry of handguns is illegal in Texas. However licenced Concealed Carry is legal and anyone can legally carry a handgun (concealed) in their vehicle or carry openly on their own propery.
You can also legally carry a rifle or shotgun (either loaded or unloaded) openly on your person or in your vehicle.
Yes! You could sue La Crosse and demand the worlds largest six-pack of beer as a legal settlement to your lawsuit!
Nah, no problem. Just make sure you give your weapon to the bartender.
The Chief of Police in Milwaukee said (parapharsing here), "We are going to take you into custody and ask questions later."
UNBELIEVABLE!
Wisconsin is like the nanny state on crack.
This state (and the city of Milwaukee) is becoming more and more of an unappealing place to live. I'm really starting to despise it.
Ditto to that! I swear if I didn’t have a farm to run, and all my family here, I’d be outta here. I’d research the most conservative place in the country and get there. I need a place in the country for my horses and dogs, might even bring the husband with! Maybe after we retire, if we can after Zero is though with us! Maybe good things will come of the 2010 elections. Doyle out, Scott Walker in. That would be nice.
Scott Walker's making a major annoucement on Mark Belling's show early next week. Scott will be announcing his run for governor. I'm 99% sure of it.
Milwaukeeans will lose him as County Exectutive but we need him as governor.
I'll ping you if I find out an exact day he'll be announcing it.
Not sure if you got to read this or not but it's an article by Scott Walker in the WSJ.
I listen to Belling’s show everyday, for maybe 14 years now. I am lucky to live just close enough to the 1130am signal that it comes in. I will enjoy hearing Walker announce his candidacy. I will be sending him a check. We have to defeat Doyle.
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