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To: betty boop; Alamo-Girl; Non-Sequitur; xzins; P-Marlowe; hosepipe; metmom; GodGunsGuts
Non-Sequitur: How do you test for a miracle?
Alamo-Girl: If you could test for it, it wouldn't be called a miracle.
Betty Boop: God and miracles are simply not "testable" in principle. But because they cannot be "tested" doesn't mean they don't exist.

Here is the dilemma. How do we test for "natural"? Apparently we can determine that something is a natural event if, without the presence of a supernatural intervening event, the thing can be shown to occur over and over and over again to the point where we assume that it is simply a "natural occurrence".

But as we have been shown in Genesis, the whole of creation is a supernatural event and a miracle. It is a miracle that atoms exist. It is a miracle that they are held together. It is a miracle that they can be combined to make all the things that exist in the universe. It is a miracle that they can be combined to form living organisms. It is a miracle that these living organisms not only live, but that they recreate themselves. It is a miracle that plants exist, that we can see, that we can hear, that we can touch, that we can feel, that birds can fly, that fish can swim, that roses can smell and that the sky can be blue.

But when we combine all these miracles what is it that we have?????

NATURE.

Then what do WE do with nature?

We look at it, we test it, we examine it and we ultimately conclude that it is merely NATURAL and ignore the miracles that brought it into existence and pretend that it all just happened on its own.

That is blasphemy.

Scientists attempt to deny the existence of the supernatural, but the fact is that Nature itself is irrefutable evidence of its own supernatural existence.

Romans 1:19-23 ESV
(19)  For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.
(20)  For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.
(21)  For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened.
(22)  Claiming to be wise, they became fools,
(23)  and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.
  

134 posted on 04/04/2009 11:16:21 AM PDT by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: P-Marlowe; betty boop; xzins; TXnMA; DallasMike
Thank you so very much for sharing your wonderful insights, dear brother in Christ!

We look at it, we test it, we examine it and we ultimately conclude that it is merely NATURAL and ignore the miracles that brought it into existence and pretend that it all just happened on its own.

That is blasphemy.

Scientists attempt to deny the existence of the supernatural, but the fact is that Nature itself is irrefutable evidence of its own supernatural existence.

Whereas I agree with you that nature declares the glory of God, I would not label all scientists as blasphemers.

Many of them believe in Christ and testify to Him not only in their personal time but also in their workplace. My daughter is in the field and takes advantage of the opportunities to witness as they come up.

Personally, I am impressed by their calling to witness in the "belly of the beast" (naturalism) that has caused so many to fall away or question the faith of their fathers.

Nevertheless, their work is based on methodological naturalism and is performed by the scientific method. I doubt that they include a personal testimony in each report any more than you would include a testimony in each document you draft or I would include a testimony each time I work a formula.


137 posted on 04/04/2009 11:45:34 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: P-Marlowe; betty boop; Alamo-Girl
Well said.. When I wake in the morning that is a miracle..
For there are many reasons I should have died in my sleep..
I don't believe in miracles I rely on them..

When one loves someone or any-thing it is a miracle..
Forgiveness is miraculous.. Appreciation of beauty is amazingly special..
A miracle is proved by tasting it..

To look around and see no miracles around you is proof of brain washing..

139 posted on 04/04/2009 12:19:54 PM PDT by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole....)
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To: P-Marlowe; Alamo-Girl; Non-Sequitur; xzins; hosepipe; metmom; GodGunsGuts
the whole of creation is a supernatural event and a miracle. It is a miracle that atoms exist. It is a miracle that they are held together. It is a miracle that they can be combined to make all the things that exist in the universe. It is a miracle that they can be combined to form living organisms. It is a miracle that these living organisms not only live, but that they recreate themselves. It is a miracle that plants exist, that we can see, that we can hear, that we can touch, that we can feel, that birds can fly, that fish can swim, that roses can smell and that the sky can be blue.

Beautiful, beautiful essay/post, P-Marlowe! Thank you ever so much for your glorious witness!

The view from the "naturalism side" sees only phenomena subject to the laws of cause and effect as they operate in 4D reality. "Naturalism" never sees that "a sole power, not restricted by any other, is at work." "Naturalism" is blinded by its own method from seeing deeper levels of reality. Usually, this is a willful blindness: "There are none so blind as those who refuse to see."

But Life itself is a miracle!

140 posted on 04/04/2009 12:25:19 PM PDT by betty boop (All truthful knowledge begins and ends in experience. — Albert Einstein)
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