We as conservatives often wonder why we're losing the war of ideas, & we are losing that war. Part of the reason we're losing is due to spineless &/or corrupt political leaders. But another significant reason is that there is a faction of our movement that seems hell bent on eating their own...Can you imagine an independent that would come to this site, looking to see what conservatism is all about, just to find what a minority is able to do w/ other conservatives? The left paints conservatives as religious fanatics, & it resonates w/ many. Is there any wonder why considering what is found here? Instead of working on issues together to move the movement along, some are allowed to make this a site of holy wars. United we conquer, divided we fall, & will continue falling. [Reno232]
Reaganaut posted that part of what I said in post #369 bears repeating, so the next 3 graphs repeat that...but keep reading...'cause I doubt if I used the same appeal to Mormons that Reno just tried on us that they would agree with those "terms."
By most means, Christians & LDS can and should continue to work together on Prop 8 like campaigns, pro-life work, and other cultural & political venues. We need to work together without conveying that this is our highest priority.
But that doesn't translate into neglect that we share our deepest differences. One day this world's going to pass away -- and even before it does -- most if not all of us FREEPERS will.
We all face ultimate accountability before a Pure Judge. We'll either claim His Son's shed blood as the rite of passage to remain in His presence, or we'll hold on to a no-go substitute. That is why we need to work together at most costs -- but not all costs. There's something coming that transcends this world and its conflicts.
LDS rarely if ever start threads going after another religion. We simply defend our faith as do other religions (namely the Catholics). For that we are often vilified, & on a conservative site! I know some of you anti’s feel you're doing a good work for conservatism, doing the Lord's work. Do you really realize how many you're actually driving away? [Reno 232]
Give me a break. One of the reasons why LDS have diminished their thread-posting FR is because they were finally being challenged each time. Restornu, Grig, and others used to post threads quite regularly. And what would be expect from LDS? Many have spent two years on a mission. Does that mean they automatically yield their missionary spirit at the end of those 2 years? (Not on your life)
Furthermore, could you imagine Christians making the following appeal to the LDS Church? (the words in italic are Reno's words -- I've just applied them putting the shoe on the other foot):
Christians rarely if ever start 2-year full-time missionary work going after LDS in western states. We simply defend our faith as do other religions (namely the Catholics). For that we are often vilified, on LDS.org -- a supposedly conservative site! LDS.org calls us apostates, says ALL of our creeds (not just some of them) are an "abomination to the Lord" and that our professing believers are ALL "corrupt."
I know some of you anti-Christian Mormons feel you're doing a good work for your conservative God, doing the Lord's work by going on these 2-year missions. Do you really realize how many you're actually driving away? I mean, once you convert a Christian to Mormonism, they spend endless hours in genealogical research, temple ceremonies & rituals, bishop meetings to get their temple-worthy checklist established, long Sunday meetings, endless extra time at work to pay for childrens' 2-year mission trips, etc. What time is left over for the cultural and political cause? Do you realize how much the work is retarded by the inability to work for the common good, rather than just proving you're “right” on religious matters? on the porches, doorsteps and homes that the 60,000 LDS missionaries are sent to -- the majority of them being already Christian homes? (If the LDS was really "Christian" wouldn't they concentrate on hitting up pagan homes and not Christian ones?)
...For some missionaries representing the LDS church, it's not about a search for the truth, or even sharing the truth they have found, rather just about the win so they can pad their missionary stats and look good to their supervisors and family members back home. You may at times feel you've won a personal battle, proclaiming the Mormon gospel, but you may be costing us the conservative war [by tying people up in endless genealogies, which the apostle Paul expressly warned against -- 1 Tim. 1:4]. An exchange of ideas on porches, doorsteps and living rooms, even though competing, & on religion at times when appropriate, is not bad. But when it gets personal, when LDS missionaries trash another b/c of their religious beliefs, -- like calling every single Christian sect "apostates," "corrupt" and featuring abominable creeds [see LDS scripture Joseph Smith - History, vv. 18-20]. when you start using the liberal playbook, then we weaken our efforts as conservatives.
Reno, you and EVERY Mormon would laugh your heads off if a group of Christians made the above appeal to the Mormon church, which BTW, PROVED it's not just a religious entity but a political one by giving a couple hundred thou to Prop 8 campaign.
Is this the forum to bash the heads in of fellow conservatives, or a place for us ALL to come together for the common good of the cause? If you feel you're doing the latter, you're sadly mistaken & indeed falling into Alinsky’s trap.
I don't believe I have ever seen you or many of the rest of the cabal consistently lock arms w/ us here towards the cause of conservatism. Instead, you have done nothing but try & tear down those incredibly important alliances. If you feel the need to satisfy yourself by tearing down LDS, perhaps you could do it where it doesn't affect the conservative cause & stopping socialism & the other evils we now face.