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New York, NY - State Bureaucrats Fight Doctor's $79 Flat Fee for Uninsured
http://www.vosizneias.com/28392/2009/03/04/new-york-ny-doctor-trying-to-help-uninsured-patients-with ^ | 3/22/09 | anon

Posted on 03/21/2009 11:43:25 PM PDT by genghis

New York, NY - The state is trying to shut down a New York City doctor's ambitious plan to treat uninsured patients for around $1,000 a year.

Dr. John Muney offers his patients everything from mammograms to mole removal at his AMG Medical Group clinics, which operate in all five boroughs.

"I'm trying to help uninsured people here," he said.

His patients agree to pay $79 a month for a year in return for unlimited office visits with a $10 co-pay.

But his plan landed him in the crosshairs of the state Insurance Department, which ordered him to drop his fixed-rate plan - which it claims is equivalent to an insurance policy.

Muney insists it is not insurance because it doesn't cover anything that he can't do in his offices, like complicated surgery. He points out his offices do not operate 24/7 so they can't function like emergency rooms.

"I'm not doing an insurance business," he said. "I'm just providing my services at my place during certain hours."

He says he can afford to charge such a small amount because he doesn't have to process mountains of paperwork and spend hours on billing.

"If they leave me alone, I can serve thousands of patients," he said.

The state believes his plan runs afoul of the law because it promises to cover unplanned procedures - like treating a sudden ear infection - under a fixed rate. That's something only a licensed insurance company can do.

"The law is strict on how insurance is defined," said an Insurance Department spokesman.

A possible solution that Muney's lawyer crafted would force patients to pay more than $10 for unplanned procedures.

They are waiting to see if the state will accept the compromise. Still, Muney is unhappy because, he said, "I really don't want to charge more. They're forcing me."

One of his patients, Matthew Robinson, 52, was furious to learn the state was interfering with the plan.

"The whole point is, he [Muney] found a way of paying his rent, paying his workers, and getting to see patients for the price," said Robinson.

"How can the state dictate you've got to charge more?"


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events; US: New York
KEYWORDS: flatfeedoctor; regulation
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To: genghis

$75 is the price to visit the doctor in the “After Hours Surgery” here in New Zealand — with insurance 80% if that can be reimbursed, subject to policy maximums.

(”Surgery” has a slightly different meaning here in NZ to what it means in the US. As well as being the process whereby a doctor cuts up a patient, a “surgery” is also another name for the doctor’s office)

Regular price (business hours) is about $45. With insurance 80% of that is reimbursed, subject to policy maximums.

So $79 for a NY doctor isn’t too bad, by New Zealand standards.

(A Big Mac costs NZ$4.95 here, by way of comparison)


21 posted on 03/22/2009 12:40:01 AM PDT by DieHard the Hunter (Is mise an ceann-cinnidh. Cha ghéill mi do dhuine. Fàg am bealach.)
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To: genghis

Thanks!

I was looking for this article earlier this afternoon.


22 posted on 03/22/2009 12:40:52 AM PDT by kcvl
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To: genghis
"The law is strict on how insurance is defined," said an Insurance Department spokesman. The legislators wrote the laws just as the Mob told them to.
23 posted on 03/22/2009 12:42:28 AM PDT by rvoitier (O.B.A.M.A. - One Big-Ass Mistake, America)
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To: goldstategop
insurance company pays the entire bill

Not if it's up to them and they can get away with it. That is if they didn't get pre-authorization (dumbest thing I have ever heard of from insurance people who aren't anywhere close to being doctors).

Oh, and let's not forget all the paperwork for the government (Medicare/Medicaid) who can withhold payment for any reason until they decide to pay you! If they can't find a real reason they will make up one.

24 posted on 03/22/2009 12:46:12 AM PDT by kcvl
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To: JLS

But he’s bypassing the insurance companies, and that chain of money up to and including kickbacks to politicians. How could they possibly let his scheme of not including payoffs stand?


25 posted on 03/22/2009 12:46:49 AM PDT by kenth (Obama - One Big Ass Mistake, America)
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To: genghis

the state sees money running through its fingers. Rather than Dr. Muney submitting claims to Medicare, he collects cash. Rather than paying the state insurance licensing fees, he shuns insurance, enabling his patients to pay cash. The government worries that if all doctors did this, the government would not be able to continue employing people to process insurance, doctors could cut overhead by laying off insurance billers and accounts receivable employees.

Update:

The State wrote to the doctor and said he could continue to offer his fixed fee $79/month medical care for preventative health but if someone came in complaining of an illness or injury, he would have to charge them at least $33 for that visit. Bureaucracy at work.

http://blog.americanjusticecenter.com/2009/03/state-orders-dr-john-muney-to-stop.html


26 posted on 03/22/2009 12:53:26 AM PDT by kcvl
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To: genghis

Insurance Industry Wins, Low-Cost Doctor Raises Fees

Muney, a former surgeon, started offering the $79-a-month plan in 2008.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,508990,00.html


27 posted on 03/22/2009 12:55:36 AM PDT by kcvl
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To: genghis

Want laser surgery to correct your vision?

It’s not covered by insurance.

When it first began, it cost a few thousand dollars.

Now, with competition, it’s down to a few hundred dollars.

That’s downright American.


28 posted on 03/22/2009 1:01:51 AM PDT by Glenn (Free Venezuela!)
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To: genghis
The good doc should put up a sign outside his office:

Gov't and Insurance people ..
The barber shop is down the street.

29 posted on 03/22/2009 1:02:44 AM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true.)
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To: kcvl
You can't have people pay $10 for an office visit. It would be the end of the world! So the bureaucrats forced him to raise the fee to make them happy. Consumers lost due to their interference.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

30 posted on 03/22/2009 1:20:55 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: genghis
The state believes his plan runs afoul of the law because it promises to cover unplanned procedures - like treating a sudden ear infection - under a fixed rate. That's something only a licensed insurance company can do.

What a crock. The guy offers medical service like a gym membership and the state freaks out.

31 posted on 03/22/2009 1:25:33 AM PDT by Centurion2000 (01-20-2009 : The end of the PAX AMERICANA.)
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To: Centurion2000
That's from the same people who holler about the high cost of health insurance and then stop in to thwart a plan that actually addresses it! Hypocrisy, thy name is....

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

32 posted on 03/22/2009 1:36:43 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: genghis

The government’s position is simple: No one should be permitted to offer a viable alternative to socialized medicine.


33 posted on 03/22/2009 3:01:57 AM PDT by Brilliant
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To: genghis
Just wait’ll 0bama’s minions get wind of this. Affordable private health care? He'll be getting the Joe the Plumber colonoscopy treatment free any day now.
34 posted on 03/22/2009 3:17:36 AM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets (The death cult wants death, the Israelis want peace. I, for one, see only one solution.)
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To: jeffc

Medicare says you can’t charge anyone less than you charge Medicare.

Of course, that’s a fiction, because many insurance co’s pay doctors on a percentage of Medicare. I hear that in some areas with a lot of competition among doctors and large groups of doctors, Family Physicians are offered 90% of Medicare.

There’s also the anti-trust laws that prohibit doctors from sharing information about charges and payment. We’re advised that we had better keep even private conversations and on-line discussions, etc., very general or we will be charged under the anti-trust. Also, a large group of doctors can’t be responsible for more than some set percentage of an area’s population -— while there is no such law against the insurance co’s.

Clinton’s administration charge and prosecuted a group of physicians and some hospital officials under these laws in Florida in 96 or 97 because they were advertising rates less than Medicare. The offer was considered unfair collusion. Some of the doctors went to jail, but the officials just paid fines.

Oh, for the good old days when Reno and Freeh held rallies in football stadiums to teach Medicare patients how to turn in their doctors for “fraudandabuse.” These words were melded under Reno. This was code for “We can get triple damages from the courts and pay for our department.” That was around the time that the Office of the Inspector General and the FBI made armed raids on hospitals and doctors’ offices because of alleged “fraudandabuse.”


35 posted on 03/22/2009 3:19:08 AM PDT by hocndoc (http://www.LifeEthics.org (I've got a mustard seed and I'm not afraid to use it.))
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To: kcvl
Update:

The State wrote to the doctor and said he could continue to offer his fixed fee $79/month medical care for preventative health but if someone came in complaining of an illness or injury, he would have to charge them at least $33 for that visit. Bureaucracy at work.

The doctor should draft a one-page summary of his experiences with NY state government, which explains how he was forced to raise his visit fee to $33. Then every patient should be given a copy. Let them see the real effects of government up close.

36 posted on 03/22/2009 3:32:37 AM PDT by floozy22 (El Presidente: "Ten pounds of sh*t in a five pound bag.")
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To: floozy22

I know of 2 doctors in Scottsdale who have small private family practices and still DO HOUSE CALLS!


37 posted on 03/22/2009 4:26:53 AM PDT by princess leah
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To: genghis
Shhh, don't tell anyone in the government of New York, but Netflix has a plan where you can have up to 3 movies of theirs at a time for $13.99 a month. That would sound like a movie insurance plan to the State of New York.
38 posted on 03/22/2009 4:52:17 AM PDT by Anitius Severinus Boethius
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To: genghis

I have the best medical care in my life - for $45 a visit.

This guy teaches other Drs how to set up a practice like his.

He files no insurance. If you have private insurance, you can file.

Send this to your Dr.

http://www.aafp.org/fpm/20070600/19brea.html


39 posted on 03/22/2009 5:07:14 AM PDT by gartrell bibberts (Good border security = high priced tomatoes. OK.)
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To: Wiseghy
Actually, it is very close to insurance. It can be said to really be insurance.

Insurance is the monetization of risk. Risk is the chance of loss when such chance is probabilistic. So charging a flat annual fee (in monthly installments) to cover, among other things, fortuitous accidents is, in essence, insurance.

What if the doctor were, in reality, running an intentional or unintentional Ponzi scheme by charging less than it cost to provide services? Very quickly he would run out of money and go bankrupt. This would leave patients in the hole to the extent of their prepaid premiums. And by relying on the good Doctor, they would have no other insurance. This is why insurance is regulated.

But I do believe that the State has put formalism ahead of logic. The fact that payments are monthly (I assume) removes the most serious consequences of inadequate pricing. It is an insurance-like service that is being provided. But it does not trigger in a serious way the concerns insurance regulation is intended to deal with.

40 posted on 03/22/2009 5:49:20 AM PDT by FlameThrower
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