Alexander Hamilton, Modern America’s Founding Father

City Journal ^ | Winter 2009 | Myron Magnet

[rmlew]

Go read the Federalist Papers and get back to me.

[Who is John Galt?]

Go read the Federalist Papers and get back to me.

(Truth hurts, eh? ;>)

[Avoiding_Sulla]

I think Carry_okie rather than say "poison pill," he meant to "Trojan Horse" as he did in that link to which he sent you. Let me try and shorten the answer you'll get from the link as I think C_O has an important point. 1. Our Constitution allows for treaties to override all other laws, the constitution included. No sh!t.

“This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.” -- Article VI, Clause 2

2. Our Constitution grants the president the power to treaty provided he gets 2/3 agreement from "the senators present." No sh!t again.

“He shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur;” -- Article II, Section 2, Clause 2

See? An unscrupulous president and his star chamber ("senate committee" of his careful caling together at some prearranged time when others are gone) may alone ratify treaties that override Constitutional limits on presidential, legislative, and judicial power where the treaty so ratified requires those limits be ignored.

Now isn't that one helluva Trojan Horse. You may think this is too fantastic to have been in our Constitution all this time not to have made waves, but C_O makes the case that it has been misused already (but carefully when our politicians were not as shameless as they are today) in that much longer link that I just whittled down for you.

IN SHORT: A president and a group of senatorial cronies who want power to override the constitution merely have to ratify a treaty drawn up by fellow travelers at the UN, and they have no choice but to comply with the treaty (they're really and truly sorry, but that's the way it is).

[Carry_Okie]

You've misinterpreted one aspect of the case.

any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.”

That clause refers to treaties superseding State Constitutions; the Constitution for the United States is in fact mute on whether treaty power can exert supremacy over the Constitution. One could rightly make the case that unconstitutional treaties are void because the government did not possess the legal power to negotiate particular terms and it has been in fact so stated in the Supreme Court, but in addition to the fact that said principle has never specifically voided a treaty despite hordes of legitimate opportunities, they have a cute little reality to deal with that wishful premise.

It won't matter if a treaty supersedes the Constitutional or not in the pure sense, if it is assigned as authority in a court and if the administrative branch can get away with enforcing the judgment, then it is a de facto supremacy over the Constitution, hierarchies of principle notwithstanding.

[Avoiding_Sulla]

Misinterpreted? Maybe the way the contrary argument COULD be presented were the executive branch ever to argue on behalf of its obligation to defend the Constitution rather than fall prey to its desires for more power — or even simply to leave such options and avenues available.

My interpretation of the factual (and current) situation? I thought I got your message loud and clear and passed it on relatively intact. Certainly there are no lack of devils abounding to aid an ambitious president. You have identified one whose machinations has been laying about for more than two hundred years awaiting for a brigand.

[Who is John Galt?]

Care to offer up any quotes from Timothy 'Alexander Hamilton' Geithner - citing our beloved President's recent statements?

(Frankly, it would trouble me more than just a bit, as a small 'r' republican, if our socialist president cited me as some sort of support for his Stalinist agenda - but that's just me... ;>)

[SunkenCiv]

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