[mlo]

"Actually, if you read the comments by Polarik on the Atlas Shrugged site, he says that the apparent seal on the back of the document is suspect due..."

Polarik says a lot of things. That's wan't the question. You said the scan didn't have a seal. It does.

"It has been turned into a "3D object" as you describe it by the Find Edges and Emboss filters in Photoshop."

No, you misunderstood what I said. The "3d object" i referred to was the paper document being held in the photographs. This thing:

"The bottom line is this: the biggest evidence of fraud is Obama's refusal to reveal the long form birth certificate. End of story."

Can you cite a single instance where Obama has "refused" to release it? He was asked to post a copy of his birth certificate. He did.

"Just like John Kerry never released his military records to "prove" the Swift Boat Vets were lying."

Because the Swift Boat Vets weren't lying. But Obama did release his birth certificate. Hawaiian officials confirmed it. There is no evidence that Obama was born anywhere but Hawaii. No matter what party he belongs to, there is no obligation that he respond to everyone on the internet that makes up stuff.

"And you can take your condescending attitude and shove it. I've done lots of research in genealogy and received lots of birth and death certificates from all over the country (and England too). I know how the process works."

I wasn't condescending. And let me remind you, you're the one that said that birth certificate wasn't "real", when it is.

"I'm also a graphic designer and familiar with Photoshop."

Then hopefully you'll know better than to take everything Polarik says at face value.

"I'm not sitting here talking about f-ing UFOs, for crying out loud."

It is almost that bad. Maybe not by you, but there has been a whole interconnected mythology developed about Obama's eligibility. Complete with government conspiracies, hidden evidence, altered documents, and profound misunderstandings of the law, and it all has as much proof behind it as the Roswell crash.

"If he comes clean with a true birth certificate, I'll be the first one in line to congratulate him on his American birth and citizenship. Until that time, he's a Kenyan-born Indonesian citizen and an illegitimate president."

This is not good logic. He isn't born in a particular place until he proves otherwise. Besides, the birth certificate that's been posted is a "true" birth certificate. It would be enough to settle the question in any court.

[srweaver]

The Certification of live birth posted by Obama on the internet doesn’t even qualify in Hawaii as equivalent to the original certificate (not certification) for all purposes, as has been pointed out numerous times.

So your statement that the certification is, paraphrased by me, “legally equivalent to the original certificate for all purposes,” is false.

Since you are so interested in defending Obama’s suspect documentation, I will let you put in the effort to find out which particular purposes the certification of live birth is insufficient for. If I remember correctly, it has something to do with homesteading or land ownership.

[Sola Veritas]

“This is not good logic. He isn’t born in a particular place until he proves otherwise. Besides, the birth certificate that’s been posted is a “true” birth certificate. It would be enough to settle the question in any court.”

Maybe Hawaii has deferent standards than other states, but what he posted is not a full birth certificate with the usual information found on one as seen in other states. The unique ways Hawaii handles this is causing part of the problem.

The simple truth still remains that if President Obama would post the vault copy of his birth certificate with all the usual information (as other states do) like attending physician, time of delivery, place of delivery, more data on parents....then a great many of the questions would subside (of course not all). There is no “logical” reason for him not to post this. It makes people suspicious. President Obama has pledged “transparency”, he should be transparent and set an example. He needs to say “Yes I can” instead of “No I won’t.”

[ponygirl]

Polarik says a lot of things. That's wan't the question. You said the scan didn't have a seal. It does.

It does NOT have a seal. It has a stamp. A time and date stamp that basically shows when the COPY was made, not the ORIGINAL. A recorder's seal should be located on the FRONT of the document, just like it is with any other official document from any other state in the union. It is not there, I don't care how much Photoshop work they have done on it. The stamp they have been talking about is located on the back of this document, showing what time the copy was made. IT IS NOT A RECORDER'S RAISED SEAL.

[El Gato]

It would be enough to settle the question in any court.

Yea, it would, at least the "place of birth question". That is if it was a paper copy, with a raised seal that could be examined. With paper that could be examined and so forth. But it's not, it's image which shows evidence of having been manipulated.

[El Gato]

He was asked to post a copy of his birth certificate

No he wasn't. It was alleged that he was not born in the US. This image was posted in response to that allegation. The image posted did have a seal, at least to the naked eye, and yet when it was allegedly photographed in response to that observation, why there is the seal. A perfect circle, when from the angle of the paper, it should appear as an ellipse. Oh and the second fold, another critique of what was originally posted was that it was not visible, also appears. Right through the "seal".

[El Gato]

He isn't born in a particular place until he proves otherwise

That is the way it works for the rest of us, regarding place and date of birth. Usually requires a picture ID and sometimes even a thumbprint.

[hoosiermama]

the birth certificate that's been posted is a "true" birth certificate. It would be enough to settle the question in any court

Mlo, You are NOT a lawyer. The lawyer in my house says that no judge will accept the document his lawyer presented as evidence. Any judge will only accept a document that has not been both certified, but presented to the court by an officer of the court.....

The reason that OB's lawyer only presented it as an asterisk was to establish a loophole for his own malfeasance.