Christians can’t be removed from economics

Mat-Su Valley Frontiersman ^ | January 2, 2009 | Howard Bess

[DugwayDuke]

He’s a member of the American Baptist church, not at all to be confused with the Southern Baptists for example. The AB have been moving to the left since the 1970s, have a significant number of black congregations, and are a member of the National Council of Churches. Such an article is not at all surprising coming from that background.

BTW, I’ve heard similar arguments from a number of pastors here in Alabama. Usually pastors of inner city black congregations. Some have almost claimed that it is a sin not to vote for tax increases. (On the rich of course.)

[Just mythoughts]

He’s a member of the American Baptist church, not at all to be confused with the Southern Baptists for example. The AB have been moving to the left since the 1970s, have a significant number of black congregations, and are a member of the National Council of Churches. Such an article is not at all surprising coming from that background. BTW, I’ve heard similar arguments from a number of pastors here in Alabama. Usually pastors of inner city black congregations. Some have almost claimed that it is a sin not to vote for tax increases. (On the rich of course.)

What you say may well be true, however, it has been my experience with majority of Baptists I know they are born and bred democrats. From the most educated, doctors lawyers down to the stand in line welfare recipients. Has nothing to do with location or a particular race. These people bought whole hog that President Bush is an unscrupulous politician who went to war over oil and only pushed a tax cut for his 'rich' brethren. Oh and he was handicapped because he is not well spoken.

[wintertime]

They have become rich at the expense of the poor.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Pure Marxist drivel. Dangerous drivel!!!

If the wealth is honestly created, that wealth represents increased health, security, comfort, and sometimes just pure fun for everyone in society ( including the poor!) Wealth that is honestly generated provides jobs which keep people from being poor.

By the way, Jesus preached about **personal** charity. There NO example of Jesus proposing that the Roman guards take money from the rich to give to the poor.

[wintertime]

Ratios between the wages of workers and executives were considered.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I wonder if this dufus of a writer would rather have 50% of $10 or 1% of $100,000,000?

Only someone who is guilty of breaking the Tenth Commandment ( envy of your neighbor's goods) would be worried about the income gap between the poor and the rich.

When wealth is honestly created the BIGGER the gap the better off ALL will be!

[wastoute]

This author makes some good initial points but fails to follow his thinking to it's logical conclusion. 10 years ago I embarked on a conscious, intellectual pathway to become a Christian in my mid 40’s. In my reading of the Bible I encountered a “Christian Economics” that I have always felt should be elaborated on by a Theology expert but have found none. As Christians we have an obligation to care for our brother. In the U.S. we have agreed to cede this obligation to the gummint which while practically may be possible, such “charity” is not voluntary but rather increased taxes which do nothing to meet our real obligation and damage the recipients of such “charity”. Our churches have let the IRS blackmail them into silence on this point. Our pastors our happy to continue to get their ten percent without commenting on the fact that our tithes have become burdensome in light of the 50% level of taxation we face. Inflationary growth of our economy has allowed this spiral to continue until recently. What is needed at this time is for our Christian leaders to pry themselves away from the government and to begin to insist that the resources that should be going to real charity actually do so. Unfortunately our leaders will never risk the loss of their tax exempt status so they continue to succumb to the IRS blackmail. These facts have become clearer and clearer to me over the last ten years and it is painfully clear what should be done but won't be.

Then I recall His words and remember that what I propose is sinful in itself as I suggest we can turn our society and economy around. Only He can do that and our faith needs to be in Him. If we face hardship it is because that is what He requires of us at this time. Many may come to Faith as a result of the terrible times ahead and THAT is what is important, not our society receiving the Blessings of Liberty through Grace. We must look to the fruit of the coming time.

[RoadTest]

“As I understand the teachings of Jesus, he believed that none of us own anything. Everything belongs to God. The wealth we privately hold is held in trust.”

This is proven beyond a doubt when we die. It all gets left here for somebody else.

The big difference between this and Marxism is that the first century believers VOLUNTARILY held all things in common. No one required of anybody that they give their wealth to the church. Marxism robs the rich to give to the state. Maybe there’ll be something left over for the poor and maybe there won’t, but the commissars will enlarge their dachas.

He is right in that today’s churches all to often are self-perpetuating and self aggrandizing. Scripture is even misapplied out of context to bind people to the local congregations. “Forsake not the assembling of yourselves together” doesn’t imply a steeplehouse and stained glass windows. Misplacing “the sanctuary” is another. The sanctuary of Christ is the believer’s heart.

Don’t jump on the guy for pointing out what we’re doing wrong.

[bert]

......They have become rich at the expense of the poor. .....

The problem is the poor, not the rich. The poor are not exerting themselves adequately. The poor need to work more to decrease the gap.

[wintertime]

And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I believe I am correct that the “needle” was a small door in the wall surrounding Jerusalem. For a camel to pass through this “needle” or small door, all the packages had to be unloaded from the camel, and the camel had to crawl through on his knees.

So?....All must unburden themselves from unhealthy attachment to wealth and other worldly interests and humble themselves before God.

[RoadTest]

“Giving 10% of your pretax income to charity is specified in the Bible as tithes and is required by God.”

Where?

[mrbillwilson]

American Baptist’s are members of National Council of Churches. They are leftists.

[Tribune7]

“Jesus died for our sins” might be an acceptable theological statement, but it is fraud as a statement about how and why he was martyred.

And the guy who wrote this is a pastor?

Jesus did not challenge the economics (consider the Parable of the Talents) or politics of the time (consider Render Unto Caesar).

The only thing he challenged was our sinful natures. The powers-that-were in Jerusalem didn't think of themselves as having sinful natures.

I certainly have a sinful nature and need my Saviour.

I wonder if Mr. Bess thinks he and his fellow Dems have sinful natures. Does he think that if one has the right politics, one doesn't?

[BenLurkin]

Christian pulpits are silent about almost every critical social issue>

Nonsense. Christian churches speak out against abortion regularly.

Rich people who fail in matters of generosity are going to hell. That is what Jesus taught.

No. Jesus taught that those who reject him as the Son of God will go to hell.

In our recent history, we have made it easier for people to become rich.

Nonsense. Tax policies make it harder and harder for Joe the Plumber to break out of the ranks of the wage slaves and into financial independence.

They have become rich at the expense of the poor.

Which poor? The ones driving cars or the ones with big screen TVs?

America is not a Christian nation. America was never intended to be a Christian nation.

The enemies of our nation never get tired of telling that lie!

[count-your-change]

Good points! thanks.

[Tribune7]

Some have almost claimed that it is a sin not to vote for tax increases. (On the rich of course.)

I think Rev. Wright was saying the same stuff.

I wonder what Mr. Hess thinks about his home.

[yawningotter]

Giving is an attitude of the heart. God loves a cheerful giver, and it is easy to see why. A willing, cheerful giver sees what needs to be done, and is happy to give his money, time and efforts to God’s service. “Giving” through higher taxes breeds waste and resentment. Why should anyone help the poor when there is welfare? “They get a government check, then why should I help” is the attitude many have.

[BnBlFlag]

“.......it’s been my experience with majority of Baptists I know they are born and bred Democrats”.
Where you from, Boy?

[Tribune7]

There is a disciple that the socialists are in step with.

[Just mythoughts]

Where you from, Boy?

Your Christian roots are showing.

[BnBlFlag]

“Your Christian roots are showing”.
Most of the Southern Baptists I was raised around have been Conservatives. That why I asked the question (somewhat tongue in cheek).
There are many types of “Baptists” and yes, some of them are on the Left. But not around here in S.E. Texas except for the Blacks.
And,btw, what did you mean by the statement “Your Christian roots are showing”?

[Just mythoughts]

Where you from, Boy?

Who did you think you were talking to? Am I suppose to take it as it is written? It is just plain bizarre how unlearned some people are when it comes to the politics within their own denominations.

Every last one of these Baptists I referenced are 'lily' white and born and bred democrats. From the highly educated doctors/ lawyers/ teachers school board members right on down to the get in line for the welfare hand outs. Don't you remember the Billy Graham/Clinton democrats??? And now the Warren/Bama democrats. Or do I have my denominations mixed up I thought these were the heart and soul of Baptist denominations?