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To: TheCipher

They vouched that he had an authentic birth certificate. That is all. Not an Hawaiian birth certificate. This is what was said from Hawaii:
Fukino said she has “personally seen and verified that the Hawaii State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.

She did not say original Hawaii birth certificate. Under Hawaiian law, he could have applied for a Hawaii birth certificate provided he could show his mother was a resident of Hawaii one year prior to his birth. Part of that process is submitting your original birth certificate. So therefore, in accordance with state policies and procedures , they would have his original birth certificate on record. It does not mean it is a Hawaii birth certificate.

As to the birth announcement:

A short form COLB shows a birth was registered. But not by whom and exactly how, whereas on the vault copy in section 18a it specifies who registered the birth ( Parent or Other ).

On the Decosta COLB (which no one alleges is a fake,) every field header matches that of the Obama COLB except for one. One hers it says : Date ACCEPTED By State Registrar. On Obamas it says Date FILED By Registrar. Two different things. Either that field header is forged in Obamas ( they are from the same form - OHSM 1.1 Revised (11/01) ) or it means his registration was FILED at that date BUT was not ACCEPTED until later. It wouldn’t be accepted until there was proof of birth. If he was born out of the country it may have taken time to get the certificate.

The grandmother could have registered the birth being a blood relative ( as evidenced by field 18a on the long form ). Once registered it would go to the Dept of Health. That is where the papers get the birth announcements from ( as can been seen from the top of the Sunday Advertiser - Health Bureau Statistics ) and thus the announcement of the birth would be in the papers.


Dr. Fukino, an appointee of a Republican governor who endorsed John McCain and campaigned for John McCain also said that the flak over Obama’s birth certificate was “ridiculous.” Someone will have to explain a plausible explanation as to why a Repubican administration in Hawaii would hide the fact of an out of state birth being registered in Hawaii or a delayed filing of a Certification of Live Birth. Everything that Dr. Fukino and Dr. Alvin T. Onaka, the Registrar of Vital Statistics (whose name appears on Obama’s short form COLB) have said gave credence to a natural birth in Hawaii not the opposite.
A short form COLB would not say BORN in Honolulu if the child was not born in Honolulu. Its really that simple.
In order to file a delayed registration of an out of state birth in Hawaii in 1961, the child had to be over one year old. No one is alleging that Barack Hussein Obama II was over one year old when he appeared in Hawaii. His birth announcements were in the local Honolulu newspapers when he was nine days old.
Here’s the relevant section of Hawaii Revised Statutes to the delayed or late registration of a birth provisions:

Who is Eligible to Apply for the Issuance of a Late Birth Certificate in Lieu of a Certificate of Hawaiian Birth?
The Certificate of Hawaiian Birth program was established in 1911, during the territorial era, to register a person born in Hawaii who was one year old or older and whose birth had not been previously registered in Hawaii. The Certificate of Hawaiian Birth Program was terminated in 1972, during the statehood era.
Certified copies of a Certificate of Hawaiian Birth may be requested following the procedures for certified copies of standard birth certificates (see Certified Copies). The eligibility requirements for issuance of a certified copy of a standard birth certificate apply to Certificates of Hawaiian Birth. And the same fees charged for standard birth certificates are charged for Certificates of Hawaiian Birth. Copies of the set of testimony used to establish a Certificate of Hawaiian Birth may also be requested, and an additional fee is charged for each copy of the set of testimony.
Any person to whom a Certificate of Hawaiian Birth has been issued may submit a request to amend an entry, including a legal change of name, on an existing Certificate. A request to amend a Certificate of Hawaiian Birth will, however, be considered to be and treated as an application with the Department of Health for registration of a late certificate of birth in current use, unless a standard birth certificate for that person already exists in the vital records of the Department of Health. Should there be a situation of dual registration, the requested amendment will be made to the standard birth certificate on file if the required documentary evidence in support of the amendment has been submitted and evaluated to be adequate. If there is no standard birth certificate on file, an applicant is required to submit documentary evidence of the birth facts necessary to support of the registration of the late certificate of birth. If approved, the late birth certificate will be registered in place of the Certificate of Hawaiian Birth, which must then be surrendered to the Department of Health.
How to Apply for the Issuance of a Late Birth Certificate in Lieu of a Certificate of Hawaiian Birth
Upon receiving a request to amend an entry on an existing Certificate of Hawaiian Birth, the Registration Unit of the Office of Health Status Monitoring will send:
1. notification to the requestor that the amendment request is treated as an application for registration of a late certificate of birth, and
2. instructions on procedures for and submission of required documentary evidence in support of registration of a late certificate of birth.
If the amendment request is subsequently withdrawn, all documents received in support of the amendment will be returned. If the requestor elects to proceed with the application for registration of a late certificate of birth, the documentary evidence submitted in support of registration will be reviewed and evaluated for adequacy. If the application is approved, a late birth certificate will be issued and the original Certificate of Hawaiian Birth issued to the applicant must be surrendered to, for cancellation by, the Department of Health. No filing fee is charged for the late birth certificate.


If between now and next Monday when the Electoral College votes in 50 states and the District of Columbia someone comes up with a Kenyan or an Indonesia alternative birth certificate or proves to a judge that the Certificate of Live Birth from Hawaii is a forgery, then perhaps Obama will not become the 44th President of the United States. But if those magical events do not occur, the Electoral College vote will proceed.
From Hawaii Revised Statutes 338-13(b): “Copies of the contents of any certificate on file in the department, certified by the department shall be considered for all purposes THE SAME AS THE ORIGINAL...”


1,024 posted on 12/10/2008 11:21:09 AM PST by jamese777
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To: LucyT

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1,025 posted on 12/10/2008 12:44:04 PM PST by LucyT (...............Don't go wobbly now..............)
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To: jamese777
Why don't you just give it up. You are wrong on so many points again. First:

Someone will have to explain a plausible explanation as to why a Repubican administration in Hawaii would hide the fact of an out of state birth being registered in Hawaii or a delayed filing of a Certification of Live Birth.

Nobody is hiding anything. They are following the law. It is against the law in Hawaii to reveal what is in a persons BC. If they said he had a Kenyan BC, that would be breaking the law, because it would reveal what was in his record.

Second:

A short form COLB would not say BORN in Honolulu if the child was not born in Honolulu. Its really that simple.

Yes , it is really that simple. His short form says the it was FILED on that date, not ACCEPTED. The reason it can't be accepted is becasue there is no proof of birth, i.e. a birth certificate.So the field would say Honolulu because that is where it was registered. Once it had been ACCEPTED, it would show the actual birth place. Why was the filing never accepted ?

Third:

Here’s the relevant section of Hawaii Revised Statutes to the delayed or late registration of a birth provisions: Who is Eligible to Apply for the Issuance of a Late Birth Certificate in Lieu of a Certificate of Hawaiian Birth?

That is NOT the relevant statute. That is an entirely different program that was set up before Hawaii became a state. The Certificate of Hawaiian Birth is NOT the same as a a Certificate of Live Birth or a Certification of Live Birth. Read your history on Hawaii before you start quoting laws that not relevant to the issue at hand.

Finally:

From Hawaii Revised Statutes 338-13(b): “Copies of the contents of any certificate on file in the department, certified by the department shall be considered for all purposes THE SAME AS THE ORIGINAL...”

The key word there is copies. The COLB is not a copy, it is a compute generated summary. There is a difference. Plus according to his COLB, the filing was never ACCEPTED.

By the way, I have been dealing with administrative law, federal and state statutes for over 20 years. What is your experience ?

1,030 posted on 12/10/2008 8:11:04 PM PST by TheCipher
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To: jamese777
If between now and next Monday when the Electoral College votes in 50 states and the District of Columbia someone comes up with a Kenyan or an Indonesia alternative birth certificate or proves to a judge that the Certificate of Live Birth from Hawaii is a forgery, then perhaps Obama will not become the 44th President of the United States. But if those magical events do not occur, the Electoral College vote will proceed.

True. But if there is one senator without jelly for a spine that stands up and objects to the votes from his state being admitted until his eligibility is verified, then it could possibly be put on hold.

1,038 posted on 12/11/2008 1:02:29 AM PST by TheCipher
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