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To: Tublecane

No, not ALL people born in the United States are NATURAL BORN citizens.

Please read the following carefully:

NO 14th Amendment citizen can be President. Regardless of HOW they achieve their citizenship. 14th Amendment citizenship is given under MULTIPLE circumstances.

People BORN in the United States to one US citizen are ‘citizens of the United States’ as defined in the 14th Amendment. Barack Obama has said he’s a 14th Amendment citizen. This is because he was BORN in the United States to ONE US citizen and ONE UK citizen.

People NATURALIZED in the United States are ‘citizens of the United States’ as defined in the 14th Amendment.

It is the SAME ‘level’ of citizenship given under different circumstances.

Please read the 14th Amendment. It grants the same level of ‘citizenship’ to those BORN OR NATURALIZED in the United States, AND subject to the jurisdiction thereof.

One must be either:

Born in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof (Barack)

Naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof (Arnold).

They are BOTH recognized as Citizens of the United States under the 14th Amendment.

NEITHER can be President.

Just like an anchor baby couldn’t be President. They get their 14th Amendment citizenship from merely being BORN in the United States. Well, provided they aren’t any of the following:

(1) Children born to foreign diplomats
(2) Children born to enemy forces engaged in hostile occupation of the country’s territory
(3) Indians

The three listed about do not achieve US citizenship by merely being born in the United States because they are not ‘subject to the jurisdiction thereof’.

‘Subject to the jurisdiction thereof’ means COMPLETE jurisdiction of the United States.

The US has complete jurisdiction over Barack upon birth because he was none of the three things listed above.

The US has complete jurisdiction over an anchor baby that is none of the three things listed above.

The US has complete jurisdiction over Arnold because he is naturalized.

All three were born OR naturalized in the United States AND all three were ‘subject to the jurisdiction thereof’ but NONE can be President.

They are ALL Citizens of the United States as recognized by the 14th Amendment.

Same level of citizenship for them all, regardless of how they got it.


566 posted on 12/05/2008 7:31:58 AM PST by wndawmn666
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To: wndawmn666

You go through a lot of tortured logic to prove that the 14th amendment does not set the standard for who is elligible to be president. We all know that. What you don’t seem to realize is that the 14th amendment sets a standard for people being born in the U.S. as citizens. If you are born as a U.S. citizen, you are a natural born citizen, and therefore elligible to be president under whatever article it is that sets that standard.

Again, there are only two types of citizens: natural born and naturalized. Natural born citizens posess the “same level of citizenship” as naturalized citizens, as you say, except as regards elligibility to be president. There is no seperate category of citizenship called “born citizens under the 14th amendment” who are not natural born citizen. If you are born a citizen under the 14th amendment, you are a natural born citizen, because that’s what it means to be a natural born citizen: to be born a citizen.


652 posted on 12/05/2008 6:37:42 PM PST by Tublecane
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