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To: djf; Diamond; Alamo-Girl; joanie-f; hosepipe
And seems to me he gets only mediocre reviews as a father - what kind of father lets his kids pull some of the sh*t we do?

A father who respects the freedom of his children? If God prohibited evil in this world, then what would that do to human liberty?

I look at it this way: God made a world that is "good," not "perfect." Had He made a "perfect" world, it would be perfectly static. For what is already perfect cannot be improved upon. Therefore, man would be eliminated as a partner in the great hierarchy of being. Yet it is clear to me from reading the Bible that God deliberately intended for man to have a creative role in the unfolding of His Creation.

A-G's book addresses the problem of Good and Evil:

The Existence of Evil
Some believe that God, being good, could have no hand at all in the existence of evil. Others believe that God created both good and evil to serve His own will for us.

But, as my beloved sister in Christ ... puts it: God declared His Creation to be “good,” not “perfect” (Genesis 1).

Truly, if God had made everything perfect from the beginning, this heaven and earth would not be dynamic, and man would have nothing to do. As ... says, ‘In creating the universe as He did, it seems God deliberately designed it in such a way as to leave a very large creative role for man in the fulfillment of His Purpose. For He charges Adam with the command to be the faithful steward of His creation, and bids him to be fruitful.’

As another example, God of His own will put the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the Garden of Eden. It was to be observed — but not taken in, not “eaten” (Genesis 2).

Likewise I assert in the body of this book that we, the adopted children of God, learn by observing contrasts. We know health because we have known sickness. We know light because we have seen darkness. We know good because we have seen evil. And so on.

In the text, I seek to distinguish between God’s permissive will and His creative will, that His Creation moves towards His good purpose (the new heaven and earth), and that He permits things to occur in this heaven and earth that will not be permitted in the next heaven and earth.

Again, He could have made everything perfect from the beginning, but He didn’t. The point is that all things resulting from the permissive and the creative will of God work together for the good of His adopted children (Romans 8:28). We learn from observing these contrasts in this heaven and earth.

Growing up as His adopted children, I assert, is the meaning of life — what “all that there is” is “all about.” And I assert that is the underlying theme of “Our Father Who art in heaven” — the first phrase of the Lord’s Prayer and the first chapter of this book.

Evil comes into the world, not necessarily because God deliberately put it there (i.e., creative will), but because He wants man to be free to choose (i.e., permissive will); and free men always have the option of choosing evil.

It seems to me the evil in this world is not built into the design of Creation, but is largely the result of free human choices. Of course, this does not explain the early death of your wife, which is a perceived evil.

Yet I am reminded of Socrates' statement to the Athenian jury which had just condemned him:

...It is now time for us to depart hence, — for me to die, but for you to live. Which of us, however, will arrive at the better thing is manifest to none but Divinity. [tr. Sydenham and Taylor]

Such knowledge likely will not comfort you on the devastating loss of your dear one. So I pray that the Holy Spirit, the Comforter, will come to you and lift your burden of grief and anger....

May God ever bless you, djf — you and all your dear ones!

148 posted on 11/24/2008 12:30:56 PM PST by betty boop
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To: betty boop; djf; Diamond; Alamo-Girl; hosepipe
You write an insightful distinction between good and perfect, betty – and an excellent defense of the too often ignored, or misunderstood, concept of free will. Thank you!

I don’t know you, djf, but I see from what you have written on this thread that you have lost your young wife. I am so sorry for your loss.

Please preface the following with the disclaimer that the words are simply the result of more than sixty years of observing people, myself included. The eyes with which I have observed are human ... my own ... and therefore subject to human frailty and discernment, which are often neither good nor perfect. :)

All of us have lost, or someday will lose, someone very close to us. After all, everyone who passes was someone’s son or daughter, mother or father, husband or wife, sister or brother – and he or she leaves behind people who experience untold emptiness and grief ... and question why.

Over the years, I have found that, when people of faith endure such loss, one of two things generally occurs: (1) over time, their faith grows stronger as a result of turning to the Lord in their time of grief, and receiving the strength, wisdom, comfort and direction that only He can provide during such a painful trial, or (2) pretty much immediately, they turn away from Him in anger, grief or confusion. Neither person is better than the other; they both simply used their free will to choose one of two diverse paths, for reasons only they can fathom.

Those who turn away from Him for an extended period often attempt to fill that God-shaped void within them with something else. Trouble is, God’s ‘shape’ is unique, and attempting to force something else to assume that ‘shape’ often results in deep and long-lasting frustration and disappointment.

I don’t sense that in your words. You wonder why He doesn’t answer, and you continue to serve others in need, as is evidenced by your attending to your United Way family. You acknowledge that He is there, and you are also ministering to others, as would please Him.

We have all come to Him in prayer at one time or another and felt that our prayers were going no higher than the ceiling. Sometimes when our prayers are answered, we are too ‘otherwise occupied’ to hear His whispers, because we are too busy searching for neon signs that read ‘Go this way!’ I’ve been guilty of looking for neon, and ignoring whispers, more times than I can count. :)

Forgive my presumptuousness, but I suspect that you may not have ‘lost’ your faith at all. I suspect that you are still overcome with grief and anger, and unknowingly praying with both in the mix ... but your knowledge that He is your Lord and Savior is intact, and simply waiting for the blessings that derive from that precious gift to once again be made manifest.

God bless ...

~ joanie

152 posted on 11/24/2008 8:12:35 PM PST by joanie-f (If you believe that God is your co-pilot, it might be time to switch seats ...)
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To: betty boop; Alamo-Girl

Congratulations on your book!

The conversation about free will is one that my husband and I have a lot. This sounds like a perfect gift for him—which will also be a gift for me because I will read it, too!

May God richly bless you in all you do for His glory!


167 posted on 11/25/2008 5:01:22 PM PST by Shelayne (Pray without ceasing.)
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