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To: Murp; etcb
The demise of the American car companies is a direct result of a government that has run amok. I disagree. The economic realities in the early 80s that allowed asset-stripping and offshoring within a low regulation, low taxation framework to work in America's interest, have shifted. If done properly, government interference can help the problem. If done badly, it will make things worse. The price of telling the US Government to stay out of the marketplace altogether, is that the city slickers who got the USA into this present financial debacle in the first place (and are all walking away with their pockets full), will get even richer than they already are - while everyone else suffers the consequences. We know what sort of things they'll do: close down as many factories on American soil as they can, and get big kickbacks for doing it. Foreclose on loans, and pocket the difference. Talk down share values, and buy them at below market value. We know that's the sort of things they'll do because that's how most of them made their fortunes to start with. And in the current global marketplace, that strategy is even more lucrative now, than it was back then. Now EVERYTHING IN WALMART IS MADE IN CHINA. What happened? Stripping assets, laying off American workers, and moving production abroad. Big profits for the shareholders and market traders, cheaper costs to the consumer. Everyone wins. Well, that was the theory. Allowing market forces on their own to dictate whether businesses survive or not, is a much more risky approach today than it was twenty five years ago. We are told that the American manufacturers are in trouble because they relied on SUVs and pickup sales, when they ought to have been making small fuel efficient cars. Really? Yes, really. But not for the reasons you think. America's interest clearly won't be served if it ends up having to pay huge sums of money to potentially unfriendly nations in order to service its own supply needs. Mainland Europe has already seen its oil pipelines turned off on Putin's orders, simply because he wanted to win an argument with a former Soviet state that's now joined the European Union. So, even if global warming is a fallacy, security of supply is of major concern to Europe. We don't have to worry about that happening to America now, but as the old saying goes, prevention is better than cure. How long will it take for new wells to be drilled on American soil? For new refineries and pipelines to be built? To get them up to full production? Can America supply ALL its own fuel needs while it waits for the new sources to be at full production? If it can't, where's the oil going to come from? The Arab states? Chavez? Putin? It might cost a few million dollars more, to build cars that do 50mpg, instead of building them with engines that achieve 10mpg. But if it buys America a bit of breathing space to ensure that alternative supply routes ARE in place and ARE secure before you have to rely on foreign supplies, then it's money well spent. It is the green environmental whackos that HAVE CREATED THE SENARIO THAT WE SEE TODAY Green environmental whackos don't run Russia or Venezuela. They don't control Middle East oil supplies. They aren't responsible for taking Iraq and Afghanistan out of the supply chain. They don't tell OPEC how much to charge for a barrel of oil. And they aren't responsible for China's exponential rise in demand for oil. And, they certainly haven't set fire to any of Iraq's oil wells. So on what basis do you think they're responsible for the problem?! Green environmental whackos have misdiagnosed the problem,I have no doubt of that. But even so, they are absolutely right to warn that security of supply could be a really big problem for the United States in a couple of decades' time. Drilling more oil wells is a medium term solution. Making better use of the oil that's already available by improving engine efficiency and making use of renewable energy sources wherever possible, as the Green lobby suggest, is an alternative solution. There's no reason, other than blind dogmatism, to rule out either solution. In fact, the best strategy in my opinion is to do both.
75 posted on 11/21/2008 11:41:45 AM PST by Don Stadt
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To: Don Stadt

“The demise of the American car companies is a direct result of government that has run amok”

After reading your reply, I don’t think we are in disagreement about very much. I am not against a government that sets a fair playing field for American corporations and American workers. What I am referring to is a government that has refused to allow the development of our own energy resources, thereby making us dependent upon the whims of foreign countries, encouraged offshoring of jobs, and signed so called “free trade agreements” that do not recognized the discrepency in the marginal cost of labor. They have failed to secure our borders. They have spent us into bankruptcy to the tune of 10 trillion dollars. It is the POLICIES that they have introduced that have caused our current economic crisis. In short, I believe the government has abetted the short sighted, greedy CEOs in their goals of lining their pockets at the expense of the American people.

“Everything in Walmart is made in China”

I agree with your statement and conclusion, “well that was the theory”.
The 1980s was an era that saw the greatest domestic investment in our history. “Supply side economics” brought demand and supply into equilibrium, thereby stabilizing prices and curbing inflation. I remember well the late 70s when demand far outsripped supply and consumers were rushing to buy a new car this month, (before they went up again next month). Demand-pull inflation went away. We entered a golden era with lower taxes, less government regulation, and American corporations were producing at home, for American consumers, with American labor. Our standard of living rose as the dollar strengthend and prosperity returned. But then came the demise of communism. US corporations, driven by short-sighted goals,(which ultimately has proven catastriphic), focused on NEXT QUARTERS PROFITS by replacing American workers with cheap foreign labor. And American jobs just kept on leaving. Enter the government. It became apparent that American purchasing power was being severely impacted, so in order for their ponzy scheme to work, wages had to be replaced by credit. CREDIT CARDS FOR ALL!!! Easy finance for all. After all, why worry about the loss in income when your job turned into a “service job”, paying much less, when you can get another “CREDIT CARD”. And anyway, the government told you the “New Economy” was just around the corner. Keep on spending, the debt doesn’t matter. Our money is gone. It is in China, Japan, India, and in the Sheiks bank accounts. Our manufacturing jobs are gone. Our purchasing power is gone. We face third world status. IT IS GOVERNMENT POLICIES THAT HAVE LED TO, OR ALLOWED THE DE-MANUFACTURING OF AMERICA. Old Sam Walton would be livid if he could observe what has become of us in so short a time. HIS MOTTO was WE BUY AMERICAN GOODS. Now even he couldn’t find them to buy.

“We are told American manufacturers are in trouble”

Actually I agree with you, and the Big 3 are bringing many fuel efficient cars to market. We must pursue all areas of energy development and we must cut our dependency of foreign oil. It is the Government that allowed our energy dependence on foreigners.

“Environmental Whackos”

They don’t control supply in Russia or Venezuela, BUT THEY SURE HAVE BEEN SUCCESSFUL IN AMERICA. We all want a clean environment, but these people are absolute idiots. In fact they had rather we live in the stone age. They are nothing more than a tool of those who seek to destroy capitalism. When you say they have every right to warn us about supply two decades down the road, It is “they” who have caused the supply shortage by denying development of our abundant natural resources. I give them no credit for warning us when they are the ones that caused the problem. Respecfully.


77 posted on 11/22/2008 6:42:26 AM PST by Murp
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