Warnings from world leaders all within 72 hours

"Australian PM Kevin Rudd - “Nuke strike would make 9/11 insignificant” and other weird warnings"

"Over the last 72 hours there has been a strange melange of cryptic messages leaked from world political leaders about what could be in store for America over the next few months.

These predictions of impending doom come from England, France, Australia and the United States.

Biden told the top Democratic donors that a “generated crisis” will develop within six months and Barak Obama will need the help of community leaders to control the population as unpopular decisions are made and Americans resist.

First off, I agree wholeheartedly with you that all the faithful in Christ are in his hands, and matters such as belief or disbelief in the rapture idea are not going to affect that. However, I still don't agree with your position, and if I can take a few of the examples you gave, perhaps I can show you why.

Paul's account of the “Rapture”: I assume here you are speaking of in I Thessalonians, Chapter 4. This verse does not speak of a pre-tribulation event at all. It clearly can only refer to the Day of the Lord, which happens AFTER all the other events of the tribulation. In fact, the Day of the Lord, as detailed in the chronology set forth in Revelation and elsewhere, occurs immediately before the millennial reign of Christ. If you don't believe me, compare I Thes. 4:16, the verse directly before Paul's so-called “Rapture” verse, and the corresponding exposition of these events in Revelation chapters 19 & 20. Specifically Rev 19:11-16, which corresponds to the first part of I Thes. 4:16 (the return of Christ), and Rev 20:4-5 which corresponds to the last clause of I Thes 4:16 (the first resurrection). Keep in mind there are 2 resurrections of the dead in the end times, one for the “dead in Christ” as Paul states, and one for the rest of the dead. The clear reference to the resurrection of the faithful in both verses in an indisputable verification that these verses refer to the same events, and the description of these events occurs at the end of the tribulation, not before it, in the beginning, or at the midpoint. Also, note that Rev 20:4 states these faithful who are resurrected “had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands”, thus some of them at least must have lived through the tribulation or there would not have even been a possibility to take the mark of the beast! Once again, I don't believe anything in the Lord's Word is extraneous, so I can't see why the reference to a future event that could not apply to Christians would be mentioned if the “rapture” theory were true.

The Jewish people certainly have a place in the tribulation period, as does the Church. The New Testament is quite clear that there is only one Church, and only one path to salvation. I am going to assume you identify the Jewish people as the 144,000 Elect mentioned in Revelation. Well, the Elect are the firstfruits of salvation, and salvation only comes through Christ. Therefore, the Elect can only be Christians. They may well be Jews who accept Christ rather than worship the beast, but the fact remains that they must accept Christ or they could not be saved! So if the rapture were true, and occurred before the tribulation, then at least 144,000 more people would have to accept Christ during the tribulation, and continue to suffer through it anyways, thus negating the entire purpose the “rapture” in the first place.

As for the idea that the Lord would remove his people from harms way before he pours out his wrath on the world, please refer to Revelation 12:13-17. Keep in mind that Revelation 12 is something of an overview of a long timeframe of events that occur before and during the tribulation. This is clear because it includes the birth of the Saviour, as well as reference to the timeline of the tribulation (time, times and half a time, which is one half of the tribulation “week”). These verses demonstrate that the Lord will give refuge to his faithful on earth from the beast who will attempt to persecute them during the tribulation. Notice also that these faithful “keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ”. I believe this must refer to the Church, or a remnant of it, and not to Jews who have not accepted the testimony (New Testament/Gospels) that Jesus is the Messiah.

The verses in the Olivet discourse you mention, with people being left behind do not refer to the rapture either. The verses immediately prior to them, Matt 24:37-39, refer to the time just before the Day of the Lord being like the days of Noah, when men where going about their business ignorant of what was about to befall them, “And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away”. These verses state TWICE that this comparison is between the days of Noah and the coming of the Son of Man (second coming, the Day of the Lord). Thus the people being “taken” must be those of the faithful who are still alive at the second coming; these people must be caught up to the Lord to be transformed and receive their heavenly bodies because they are about to reign with Christ for 1000 years! This is a part of the first resurrection (actually after the resurrection of the dead in Christ, but part of the same event as described in I Thes 4:13-17), again, at the end of the tribulation.

Sorry for the long reply, but I wanted to include clear references so you could see why I believe that the Bible itself refutes the rapture idea many times.

I appreciate your Christian spirit and we will just have to disagree on the escatology. I would point out that there are two distinct accounts of the Lord coming again. One he comes for his saints and the other he comes with his saints. Also the Bible states that “the son of perdition will not be revealed until he that restraineth is taken away”. I believe this refers to the rapture and when the church goes, so does the Holy Spirit. The time of the gentiles ends and the tribulation begins. Once again God will deal with the Jews and many will turn to him.

As for the resurrections, Paul indicates that those who are dead in Christ will precede those who are “changed”, and they will all meet the Lord in the air. Here he comes FOR his saints. In Matthew, Jesus says of that day, that if the Lord hadn’t returned all flesh would have been destroyed. This is the 2nd coming described in Revelations, and here he comes WITH his saints. Also concerning the judgements, we have the Bema for Christians only, where our works will be judged and hay burned and those works for Christ rewarded, yet many will be saved “as by fire”, the judgement of the nations that takes place after the tribulation, (ie. the sheep and the goat judgement), and then the Great White Throne judgement after the millinnial reign. Only the lost will be present at the Great White Throne Judgement and the book of Life will be there to refute those who would plead their good works. By Grace are we saved and we can know we are in Christ regardless of doctrinal disagreements.

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