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To: fightinJAG
As long as you keep voting for either of the dominant socialist parties in this country things will not turn around.

I hardly expect someone like you to understand that, but perhaps some others will see that continuing to do the same thing time after time and expecting different results is the very definition of insanity, or perhaps simply mania.

The fact is, both the democrats and republicans have sold us down the river as evidenced by the biggest orgy of crony capitalism I've ever seen in my life. The past 8 years have seen the biggest expansion of government power since FDR, with a republican and alleged conservative at the helm, and yet you still cheer them on. Party Uber Alles!

It's sad, really, that people seem to have given up hope for something better.


  From So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish by Douglas Adams:

[An extraterrestrial robot and spaceship has just landed on earth. The robot steps out of the spaceship...]

"I come in peace," it said, adding after a long moment of further grinding, "take me to your Lizard."

Ford Prefect, of course, had an explanation for this, as he sat with Arthur and watched the nonstop frenetic news reports on television, none of which had anything to say other than to record that the thing had done this amount of damage which was valued at that amount of billions of pounds and had killed this totally other number of people, and then say it again, because the robot was doing nothing more than standing there, swaying very slightly, and emitting short incomprehensible error messages.

"It comes from a very ancient democracy, you see..."

"You mean, it comes from a world of lizards?"

"No," said Ford, who by this time was a little more rational and coherent than he had been, having finally had the coffee forced down him, "nothing so simple. Nothing anything like to straightforward. On its world, the people are people. The leaders are lizards. The people hate the lizards and the lizards rule the people."

"Odd," said Arthur, "I thought you said it was a democracy."

"I did," said ford. "It is."

"So," said Arthur, hoping he wasn't sounding ridiculously obtuse, "why don't the people get rid of the lizards?"

"It honestly doesn't occur to them," said Ford. "They've all got the vote, so they all pretty much assume that the government they've voted in more or less approximates to the government they want."

"You mean they actually vote for the lizards?"

"Oh yes," said Ford with a shrug, "of course."

"But," said Arthur, going for the big one again, "why?"

"Because if they didn't vote for a lizard," said Ford, "the wrong lizard might get in. Got any gin?"

"What?"

"I said," said Ford, with an increasing air of urgency creeping into his voice, "have you got any gin?"

"I'll look. Tell me about the lizards."

Ford shrugged again.

"Some people say that the lizards are the best thing that ever happened to them," he said. "They're completely wrong of course, completely and utterly wrong, but someone's got to say it."



 

There is nothing sacrosanct about either major political party in this country and I think it's past time we were done with both of them, rather than to continue to act as mind-numbed robots pulling levers to make sure the other lizard doesn't get in.

192 posted on 11/10/2008 9:46:55 PM PST by zeugma (Who is John Galt?)
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To: zeugma
I hardly expect someone like you to understand that

Way to go with pulling out the ignorant, literally, personal attacks. How weak. I won't act in kind. I'll just continue to engage your ideas without resorting to childish insult.

You can "be done" with the two major political parties all you want, but until one is displaced by a new party or transformed into essentially a new party, these are the two major parties that will produce the Presidents of the United States.

I went to great length to make that point. Blathering on about why there needs to be a displacement or transformation of one or both of the political parties, as you have done, in no way supports the idea that simply not "voting for either of the dominant socialist parties" (your terms) will "turn around" this country.

The point of my long dissertation on the history and function of third parties was to refute exactly that. Until a visible, measurable, VIABLE movement to (1) transform one of the existing major parties or (2) displace one of the existing major parties occurs, voting third party is a waste and sure Loserville.

And it does nothing to help create that VIABLE movement. Consistently helping to hand the country over to the worst candidate does nothing to create the viable movement described above.

Nor does recognizing this fact---and asking people with sense to consider actions that, unlike wasting your vote in Loserville, do actually have a chance to create that viable movement---constitute, as you lamely accuse, "cheering on" the parties we have now. Anymore than recognizing that if the Giants and Patriots are in the Super Bowl, either the Giants or the Patriots will win. "Voting" at the Super Bowl for a team that isn't even in the Super Bowl is crazy.

Reality: You don't create a new or transformed major political party in America (which is what is required to win the presidency) by folks going solo, splintering off and voting in onesies and twosies for a whole host of protest candidates. Anymore than, in the Super Bowl above, you change the FACT that either the Giants or Patriots will win by cheering for the Ravens.

Transforming the party or creating a new one DOES NOT START WITH VOTING FOR THIRD PARTY LOSERS IN THE GENERAL ELECTION FOR PRESIDENT. IT ENDS THERE.

If you vote "third party" in the general when there is no "third party" functioning (as our constitutional system necessitates) as one of the major political parties, you are wasting your vote.

The primaries prove this point. There were several more conservative candidates running, but hardly anyone voted for them, and not ONE captured the attention of a significant segment of primary voters anywhere.

Voting for one of those primary losers in the general election, for example, does NOTHING to help transform the party or create a new one. Obviously, hardly anyone voted for those candidates in the first place. Upon what basis would voting for these losers in the general election change anyone's mind? This point goes with even more force to voting for individuals who weren't even in the primaries.

Don't like the two major parties? Fine. But don't delude yourself that throwing your vote to a Third Party Loser in the general election for president is going to change them.

There are ways to transform the parties or create viable new ones (though difficult; again, it's not enough that "third parties" exist; to be viable, they have to have more support than one of the existing major political parties). But wasting your vote on Election Day, and thus indisputably, as throughout history, helping to hand the country over to the WORST candidate is not one of them.

200 posted on 11/11/2008 5:50:11 AM PST by fightinJAG (Who needs the Fairness Doctrine? Obama admits the power to tax is the power to destroy.)
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